Nicole Laino
Well hello and welcome to the limitless entrepreneur podcast. I am your host Nicole Laino. And I am here with a special guest today, Donna Clark. Donna is a former award winning video producer and founder of a brick and mortar nonprofit Children’s Theatre Arts Academy. And she transitioned her own genius online with her drama club in a box digital course. And online children’s camp membership creative camp clubhouse. And Donna is naturally a producer and her ability for that and love for working with creatives made for the perfect job fit. She is an online right hand or backstage business boss she calls herself. And without his help her clients are able to stay in their lane of creative genius while she stays in hers. And I think that that is so important. Donna, I’m so excited to have you here. You are also the host of the backstage business boss podcast, which just launched this past month. So excited to have you here. I think you are formally I’m going to add another title on here that you are also an integrator, which I want to get to. I think that that is a word. Would you use that word to describe what you do as well?

Donna Clark
Yes, an integrator. That is the term that is tossed around in the online space. I like to coin it more of an online producer because that’s feels more like what I am. But yeah, integrator.

Nicole Laino
Wonderful. So tell the audience, introduce yourself. Tell the audience a little bit about you beyond the bio, and we can kick this off.

Donna Clark
Yeah, sure. Thanks so much for having me, Nicole. It’s it’s a pleasure to be here. So basically, the backstory is that after 20 years as a television producer, I burned out. And perhaps some of your audience members have been in a similar situation where you have your first career and then suddenly you find yourself. It doesn’t fill me up anymore. And I really felt like there was something else waiting for me. I will interject here that my then husband was not supportive of me moving away from that, you know, sort of secure production job, and was never supportive of anything sort of, after that, or entrepreneurial. One of which was like you said, I created a nonprofit theater arts academy for kids in our community. I do have a theater background, too. And super passionate about creating a home for kids that might not otherwise feel included or a part of something. So in a nutshell, I know that my story is not unique. But after 24 years of being in a loveless, lifeless unsupportive marriage, it ended. What I didn’t realize that through that period of time, I lost myself, I lost my joy, I lost my passion for creative creativity. And at that point, I looked in the mirror and didn’t recognize the face looking back at me. So once the dust settled, after the divorce, I did a bit of soul searching, I hired a business coach, which is what I thought I needed to help me filter out sort of all the things like I had a photography studio in the kids Academy. And, you know, I had all the things going, and I wanted real clarity on what I should do next, sort of in this second act. So I hired this coach, I went to Atlanta, paid a lot of money, he sat me down, and I thought we were gonna sit down and start, you know, going through the numbers and financials and stuff. And he sat me down and looked me in the eye and said, So are you happy? And then the tears just off came? So clearly I wasn’t. And so that’s kind of where we started. And that led me on my way back to rediscovering myself

Nicole Laino
that sharing all of that, yeah.

Donna Clark
And I think that as a women, we can connect on a very deep level based on our similar circumstances or stories. So then that took me on a path, leading me where basically I am today. And a year and a half ago, I was I saw a Facebook post from an acquaintance that I had met several years prior when I was a producer, and I was producing for the Michaelis Corporation and I was producing a video and it was an education video on how to paint or something and So the gal that was the on camera talent, the artist, she and I hit it off right away, she was very talented. She was great on camera. She was funny and spirited. But after that shoot was over, we went our separate ways. And we never spoke again. So until I see this post, about a year and a half ago, that was on Facebook, and she was asking people, is there anybody out there that would like to take art classes again? And I thought, dang, where has she been? And why am I just now seeing this post? So as the consummate producer that I am, I thought, gosh, she should be doing this online. So I reached out to her, and I thought, I don’t know if she’s gonna remember me. I don’t know where she’s been. I don’t know what’s going on. But I reached out to her privately. And I said, Would you ever considered doing this online? Or have you ever considered it? And she wrote back, she said, Of course, I remember you. And yes, I’ve considered it. But I don’t want to do all the things like I don’t want to do all the tech, I don’t want to do all the customer service. I don’t, you know, I just want to paint. And so that led to a conversation that led to a relationship. And now we’re working together. And she’s just painting. She’s making those connections online, building a membership. And she now has a membership with almost 500 members.

Nicole Laino
Amazing. And I love that you just took the initiative and reached out to her, rather than waiting for the opportunity to come to you. And there’s so much that I want to talk about, but I love that because I think a lot of people sit on those, those that inspiration, where you see something you think about it, and you don’t strike when the inspiration does, and then it just sort of drifts away.

Donna Clark
Yeah, I think sometimes I think you’re right. Some people overthink it, like you think, Oh, that would be cool. Maybe I should do that. And then there’s the overthinking that happens. But you know, but what if she doesn’t remember me? What if she doesn’t answer me? What if she did, you know? And all I could think about was? Okay, well, then I’m no different than where I am right? Now, if if she doesn’t want to pursue this, then she doesn’t.

Nicole Laino
It takes some strength itself to do that, though. And I think that’s where a lot of people particularly in the beginning, you fall down, you think like I don’t have enough experience, or they’re you, you, you play out like that worst case scenario in your head, and you let that put a roadblock in front of you actually making progress or creating an opportunity in your life. So I love that you just grabbed it. And you were like, You know what, I’m gonna reach out to her and see what happens. And look what happened for both of you.

Donna Clark
Right, right. And not only for the both of us, but now all of the hundreds of people that she’s making an impact on. Because, you know, every day we get emails and texts, and direct messages, thanking her for everything that she’s done in the community. And that, especially this past year during lockdown and COVID these women in this community are finding a, a respite, and a way to get away from the real world and everything that’s going on.

Nicole Laino
Yeah, and I mean, I’m, I feel everyday that my business is a blessing just because of the creativity that it allows me to have and, and to see possibility when bad things happen in the world I can, I can look to this whole space that I have to create magic for myself and for my clients and for everybody. I can meet people like you on this podcast. Like there’s just so much that that nurtures me when the world is seemingly falling apart outside.

Donna Clark
Yeah, absolutely.

Nicole Laino
I have a question for you. Because so like, I love your story, and I and I love digging into this kind of thing. But so you you talked about your your marriage, you talked about you know, your your with your husband for 24 years, he wasn’t supportive. Do you think he ever would have taken this leap? If you had stayed in that marriage?

Donna Clark
No. No, the you know, I often refer to the split the divorce as being very freeing for me, because finally, I got to reengage with who I am I in my soul. And I know that there’s bigger things out there for me, and I’m already starting to experience some of those. So I couldn’t stay. And if I had stayed, it would have been for a lot of the wrong reasons. And I think I would have just you know, withered up and died inside.

Nicole Laino
Yeah. And were you very young when you got married?

Donna Clark
Not super young. I mean, I was 27

Nicole Laino
But I still feel like an and I feel like this for a lot of women, we get married or we attach ourselves to a person, when we’re really young, and then it almost, it doesn’t stunt our evolution. But if the if the, if our partner isn’t incredibly supportive, I think women naturally differ. And then that evolution happens inside of us. And we don’t necessarily feel free to live out our dreams to say that we want more, you know, we’re kind of societally and the way that we’re, you know, depending on how you were raised. I know that I felt like that. And I know that I’ve seen that with a lot of people that I know, I didn’t get married very young, but I’ve been with my husband since I was 24. And there have been distinct moments throughout and I have a very supportive husband, but it was me feeling like I just I had to remind myself to speak up for myself, and to say, I want this for me. And I’m worthy of it. And there’s like, there i There are distinct moments in my, in my evolution, where I know that I came to these points where I was like, I need to change. And, you know, you can either come with me, or I don’t know, I hope you do. And luckily, he always said, yes, he’s very supportive. I think that there’s so much courage that has to come from that. And unfortunately, my mom was that person where she was in just a, a marriage that did not allow her to grow did not allow her to be herself. And I saw her complete, she’s a different person. After not being with my dad.

Donna Clark
Yeah, yeah. And so yeah, for sure. And, you know, for my, my personal experience, it was, it was that it was like you defer to the guy, you you, you’ve let his ideas of what he thinks he wants? Well, it wasn’t even that it was what he felt that I needed to be like, it was his idea of what I needed to be not my idea of what I needed to be. And so, but yeah, I think you’re, I think you’re right, you know, I think back on my parents too. And it’s like, my mom, deferred to my dad, you know, and she was very creative. She went that, you know, she’s older, and she went through, you know, she was a nurse, and I think back then you could be a nurse or a teacher, there wasn’t a lot of opportunity for different things. But as she got older, you know, she really explored her own creativity. And now she’s 87. And she’s publishing her second book, but she’s finally you know, doing the stuff that she should have done 50 years ago?

Nicole Laino
Yeah, no, I and I, like I love this conversation, because I think that so many of my listeners, and I know that there are a lot of women out there. And I know, just from the people that I speak with the women I’ve talked to online, and you know, that are in my Facebook community, I hear this a lot, where they don’t have the supportive spouse, or they don’t feel like they can go all in on their business, because they don’t have the support at home. And I hear it, you know, like, and I’m busy with the kids and my husband is, you know, he’s not supportive, or he doesn’t believe in it. And the truth is, is that you kind of have to, there’s two choices, it’s like you well, there’s three, there’s you give up on the business, you give up on the marriage, or you stand up for yourself within the marriage and for what you believe in and there. And I never want people to discount the power of standing up for yourself in your life in general, whenever it happens, you know that evolution can come after the marriage ends, or the thing that we seemingly feel is standing in our way, but that you choose when that second act is happening?

Donna Clark
Totally, you can. Yes, that is so smart. And because, yeah, I mean, I didn’t I got tired of trying to stand up for myself in my marriage in my particular circumstance, but and so I just I finally just was like, you know, this is draining me is too hard. I can’t do the kids and do this and fight for this. And maybe, you know, at the end of the day, it was a loveless marriage from the start. So, you know, for my circumstance, that was the situation, but I do believe that women need to be give themselves permission to stand up, like you say, and say, This is what I want. And this is how, you know, here’s the roadmap. Do you want to come along just like you said, so I really liked that.

Nicole Laino
Yeah, it’s, it’s, I mean, it’s kind of the definition of standing up for yourself and saying, I’m worthy of this. This is what I I want my dreams matter, my wants and needs matter just as much as everybody else’s in this house. And then you look at it and you say, like, Am I happy? If I got all these things? Am I still happy here in this situation? Right? Or is the situation still just something I can’t? I can’t do. But I think there are a lot of women out there that are like, I want more I know, I’m more than this not saying that this is bad. But I have a calling. Yes, I want to do it. And they get stopped by two things, they get stopped by thinking that, you know, it’s too late. I’m not worthy, you know, whatever is happening inside, and then they get stopped by the other thing, which is what you help with is, how would I even do that? Right? You don’t know. And they think about it. And they’re like, they get stopped by the logistics. They’re just like, sales pages and registration and launching and hot and what’s in Facebook ads? No way I can’t do it. Right. So So tell us a little bit about how you help with that piece. Because I think that that is so necessary.

Donna Clark
Well, in, in my example, with my friend Tracy, who is the artist, like, like I said in the beginning, you know, from the very start, I think she she knew enough about the online space, and that there were all these moving parts that were associated with it. And as much as she wanted to do a, you know, to get her art in her love for teaching that out there. That was stopping her. And if if it meant that she had to do all of that herself, she wasn’t going to do it. And so it was very important to, for me to like, talk to her and understand where she was coming from, so that I could know how I could help her. And so what I do for her is all the backend stuff. I do all the you know, all the sales pages, and the funnels and the opt ins and the setting up everything, the customer service. And one of the biggest things, Nicole that I do for her is, I feel like it’s one of the biggest things is I helped shield her from the haters. Because anybody online is it’s not a matter of if you’re going to have haters, or bad comments or negativity come your way. It’s a matter of when. And so. And I’m sure you, you know this too, that if it if you are you’re so close to your passion and what you’re teaching, or your craft and your art. If someone criticizes that in any way, in a negative way that can shut you down. That can make you feel, Oh, well, maybe I’m maybe I am a fraud, maybe I am this, you know, this impostor syndrome situation, and it can stop somebody in their tracks from moving forward. And so what I can do is help defuse that and be a barrier so that she doesn’t lose her momentum, and her passion and her confidence. And so that we don’t lose that, you know, that momentum that we’ve built? Because I can, I can filter. And she you know, she needs to see the good comments, but she doesn’t need to see the people that are just being ridiculous sometimes.

Nicole Laino
Yeah, if it’s not constructive, it’s destructive. Yeah. So I love that. Because I do think that that happens with a lot of people you get, it takes you out of that out of your zone of genius, which that I mean, a lot of things take you out of it, but that, like I talked a lot about I help women, I help men too. But mostly women really battled that inner critic and diminish that voice and not allow it to be the loudest thing in their head? Because it keeps you stuck. Because it is honestly, you know, I think most of us in the entrepreneurial space would say at some point we’ve gotten in our own way, you’ve said that were that phrase before. And by shielding by shielding her and your clients from those haters from the people that were they it’s almost like, it’s almost like a projection of your inner critic coming at you. They’re saying the things that you really don’t want to hear that you were afraid everybody will say, when you step into this into this space, and then it happens and it shakes your confidence and it can just really throw you off your game. So I don’t think that people think about that as part of the role of an integrator or an assistant or a producer or anybody that that’s in there. But I love that you brought that up because it is such a valuable service.

Donna Clark
Well, it becomes it really a part of that also is it takes me back to being a television producer when I’m working with on camera talent and it’s A part of the producers job is to be the cheerleader is to be the one that can keep them, you know, come on, you know, let’s, let’s, let’s be excited and you know, smile. And I can, I can sense when she’s feeling heavy. And when it’s starting, you know, she’s starting to kind of get into what could be a dark place, and going down a spiral. So I make sure that, you know, I’m saying, okay, you know, what you’re doing is, is worthy. And it’s important, and you need to keep doing it, right. Because, you know, hear all these amazing testimonials from people that, you know, love you and need it and really talk about how it’s saved them in some dark times. So what she is doing is very important, and I just have to keep that in the forefront of her mind.

Nicole Laino
So I that that’s a very important thing that not to let the not to, not to stop you from helping 50 people because one person comes and doesn’t like what you’re doing or has an issue with it. And the truth is, that has everything to do with that person and very, very little usually to do with you and what you are doing. So kudos to you for being that person and holding that role. But I want to talk a little bit about your, your former life as a producer now kind of taking that experience and, and translating into what you do. Now, I I’d like to talk to us a little bit about because I think I think a lot of our listeners and a lot of women out there, particularly like the women that had a career, maybe they left to go home work, to stay home with the kids, they left work to stay home with the kids, and now they’re looking to get back into it. And I think a lot of people look backwards, and they say I don’t see how my experience as a, this translates into this thing that I want to do necessarily. And I think your job and what you’ve managed to do sort of speaks to how experience is more than what it is like on paper. And you don’t look at it so linearly, like you’ve been able to, you saw that you’re you’re I was a I was an actor. And I used to be afraid to talk about that. Because I was like, it doesn’t sound right, because I’m a business coach, like who wants a former actor, flaky actor as a business. But the truth is, is that I have to help people build a brand and become authentically them. And character development and developing the character of the version of you you want to be I use my acting experience all the time when I work with my clients. So can you talk about how how you used your experience as a producer, and how that kind of relates to what you do now and how you see the similarities? Making? sure other people wouldn’t? Yeah, for

Donna Clark
sure. And so I love the fact that you are an actor that I love that.

Nicole Laino
Yeah, when you said the on camera talent and, and, and, you know, cheering them on, I can I remember being that person that that needed to be encouraged in between, in between takes, yeah, in between long breaks.

Donna Clark
Yeah, so as a producer, so typically, you know, a producer can mean a lot of different things in in media. But for me, it was really, I, I was, I could have created, it might have been a copywriter, the creator the and worn all the hats. But ultimately, it was that I was responsible for a television or video project from start to completion. So whatever that meant, and it was managing timelines, it was managing people, and it was managing projects. And so those skills, those organizational skills, and the ability to create systems and streamline processes. Those are all things that I did as a producer. And those, you know, over time became very second nature to me. And so, as I’ve morphed into the online space, I’m looking around thinking well, doesn’t, doesn’t this come easy to everybody? Doesn’t everybody do this? And what I find is that no, they don’t. And typically, if somebody is pursuing a passion, a hobby, and they want to, or whatever it is, their expertise that they’ve had in corporate America for, you know, 30 years. They don’t know how to manage projects, timelines, media, and all the things that are associated with an online business. And I’m able to put my arms around it, not only put my arms around it, but also cast a vision and help that entrepreneur, see what’s possible, and then implement what’s possible.

Nicole Laino
I love that. Yeah, I and producers, like when I think of a producer, I just think of resourceful because the producer role is so not defined. It’s kind of the whatever we need, it’s going to be thrown at these people, whether it’s like we ran out of water and someone needs to go find it because the convenience store is closed down the street from location, or we need to move location. Like there’s just, it could be anything. So I, when I hear that, that that connection of you moving to the like, you’re in another resourceful role. And I think that’s the that’s the thing is not looking at it in the detail. But look at it another level up from what you did, you might have been a you know, you might have been an assistant at a corporate job. But the resourcefulness What did you do? You facilitated things, you manage projects, you’re a multitasker, you are able to see big picture and the details when you look at your your skills, and you see how they relate to other industries. It doesn’t have to be so like for like, and I think that ends up stopping a lot of people they think like it well, if it’s not exactly what I did in this job, or in this role, I don’t see how it could apply someplace else, or in the entrepreneurial space. Yeah, for

Donna Clark
sure. That’s so smart. And I think that you being able to uncover that in people is an amazing ability to be able to see, like what’s possible. And like you said, I think people do get stuck. It’s like, well, I was I was an accountant. I was, you know, whatever. And so all I know is is this part of what my job used to be, but you got, you know, think bigger. Yeah. And broader. Because the online space out there, and what people are desperately needing and education and self help and coaching and all the things. There’s, there’s a wide web out there that that many people need to jump into, because other people need what you have.

Nicole Laino
Yeah, and broadening your perspective on you, and what you do and how you do it, and how you help people like when you just start thinking about, like, how would I be able to help someone, and what I find really interesting is, I see a lot of women, where they will lend their skills to the PTA, the the things that they they donate time for, so they’ll volunteer for anything. But when it comes to being paid for it, they need they feel like they need to have, you know, the resume that the exact qualifications, and it doesn’t have to be that rigid. See yourself, as you’re looking at when you when you see yourself, you know, volunteering for something, you’re just like, well, I’ll do whatever is needed. I you see yourself as this, this, this person of service. And that’s really what this is, that’s really what it is, when you step into the entrepreneurial space, you just need to, you need to just have the confidence to look at yourself and say, I’m more than just this one little thing.

Donna Clark
Yeah. And if if somebody would, you know, somebody out there, you know, like you said, volunteering for the PTA. And if you would just unpack what you enlist every little thing that you do, then you could see a bigger vision about wow, like, yeah, I can I can run this.

Nicole Laino
Yeah, and you know, you can discover your genius. It’s more than you think it is. It’s more than what you believe or what it was on what was on a resume a few years ago, or many years ago or yesterday.

Donna Clark
And yeah, and don’t you think that people, things that come easy to you discount your you know, because you think Oh, everybody can do that?

Nicole Laino
Yep. And the more you learn, the more you discount the other things that you’ve known for longer. So like as you start to enrich yourself and, and and educate yourself, you just start taking more and more for granted. And you forget that everybody else doesn’t know everything that you know.

Donna Clark
Yeah, yep.

Nicole Laino
Yeah. So so just tell everybody a little bit about how, how they could work with you who Who do you work with? What, what services do you offer? I know you talked about it about you know about the painter and that friend of yours that you help but talk to them a little bit about like, what what packages do you offer? What are your services specifically, and who is a good candidate to work with you?

Donna Clark
So I really don’t have packages. So I work on an individual basis with clients. I have a small bandwidth because I work deep with the clients that I do work with. And but basically, I take care of all the backend stuff. But it’s not only that. So I’m I, typically in the entrepreneur and integrator roles, the the entrepreneurs, the visionary and the integrator is the executioner. But I am a little bit of a hybrid of both of those roles. And so I can bring to the creative entrepreneur, I can help cast that vision and help drive that train down the tracks. So and because what I find especially I love working with creatives, and everybody’s a creative soul, I believe that. But I mean, in the traditional sense of artists, bakers, people that are traditionally considered creative, because they typically discount themselves. And don’t ever charge what they’re worth. And they don’t understand what they do is worth. But I, I’m able to let them just do their craft, because what I’ve what I’ve found, as a creative myself is that when you’re in your genius zone of being a creative and doing your thing, that’s where you flourish. Anything else that gets in your way, is going to bog you down and not let you do what you need to do to be impactful to others. So that’s what I do, I come in, and I take care of everything else so that, that artists, that entrepreneur can flourish, and stay in their lane of genius, so that they can be as impactful as they can to everyone that they can.

Nicole Laino
So when I said so if we were to work together, I would come to you and I would say, I have these ideas. I feel like I like tell me how that works a little bit just about how you work with people. And do you only work with creatives.

Donna Clark
That’s my sweet spot. So that’s my, that’s my favorite. And my and also women. I just got off a call this morning, actually. And she is a love coach. And so we it really it really is also for me, Nicole, it’s really about like, do we kind of Jive together? Do we get each other because that’s very important. And then, you know, at the end of the day, do we like each other because if we’re going to spend all this time together, we better be able to laugh and have some fun along the way. So she and I hit it off. It was great. She knows a lot about the online space and has dabbled in it for many years. But she’s to the point where it all the tech, all the strategy, all that stuff, stops her in her tracks, and she gets no momentum. So she’s at a point, now she needs she needs somebody to help her drive, drive the bus.

Nicole Laino
And I think that it’s important for people to know, to anybody who’s listening, if you feel like hiring somebody to help you with this stuff is out of your league, that it’s too expensive, that I think some people have this false idea of, of taking on somebody to help that they need to be further along. And that’s not the truth. It’s only keeping you from being further along the longer you hold off on hiring somebody.

Donna Clark
Yeah, for sure. Yep. That’s, that’s, and that, and I think that and again, it because you know, that’s, that’s a hard thing to pull the trigger on is deciding how to do that. But you know, what, there’s a lot of creative ways to work with people. And it doesn’t have to be specifically an outlay of X amount of dollars. I mean, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of creative ways to, to to partner with people.

Nicole Laino
And it’s just important to get started to just start have those conversations. I was surprised when I like I had these ideas in my head. And this is just again about how the the playing out the worst case scenario, how that just keeps you stuck. And just just make the phone call book, The Discovery call, have a chat, have an idea of what you want to accomplish, and then understand that bringing somebody else in can just fill in all of those gaps. And it usually for me, it was always way less than I thought it would be it was right. I had these these crazy numbers in my head. And I would give them like, oh, I mean, it’s a lot. It’s money, but it’s way less than I thought it would be for all that I’m getting. And when I thought about what I didn’t have to do, and what I was able to accomplish by hiring somebody to help. It was like, oh, meaning I could do this in a month, not in a year or maybe not get it done at all because I won’t actually do it.

Donna Clark
Right. Right. And that’s the thing. It’s like, you know, think about Yeah, that’s exactly right. Think about the things that you’re not getting done because, like you said, you’re getting in your own way. And think about what that might mean for not only you, and your bottom line, but all of the people that that you will impact or will miss out on your genius, if you don’t get it out in the world.

Nicole Laino
Yep, you miss out on the income, and they miss out on the opportunity to work with you and to experience the gifts that you have. And if you feel that calling, and if you feel like I should be putting this out in the world, and I just don’t know how that’s your first clue that you should make some phone calls and get on on the phone with with people like you to see like, who can I get to help me. And I like putting those questions out to the universe I like I like saying, who could help me with this, if I complete this? Who would be the perfect person? And oddly enough, you’ll be someone’s asked this question. And they’re listening to this podcast. And they should call you because maybe that is the universe painting them to tell them that maybe Donald can help you.

Donna Clark
That’s right. That’s right.

Nicole Laino
But, but I love all of this. I love this conversation. Thank you for sharing your story with us and for sharing your expertise. I think that there are so many people that are listening to this that got value out of just hearing, the transition that you’ve made. And for you being so open about all the stages of your journey, I think a lot of people will see themselves in one some or all of what you what you shared. So thank you for that. Because I think that that’s, that’s what I love to do with this podcast is open people up to different experiences that people have, because we’re all very much the same. When we get down to the core.

Donna Clark
Yes, and and I just want to leave, you know, with this one small thought and it’s just, you know, don’t give up. Like, if you’ve got that burning thing that’s happening in your gut that you’re like, Oh, I just know, I need to be doing this or they’re meant for something different, or something more lean into that. And don’t give up like Don’t, don’t let anybody else’s story or narrative about what you should be doing. Rather, you know, look into what really feels right for you and, and go for it.

Nicole Laino
That sounds like a perfect place to end this episode. I don’t even want to throw anything on top of that. Because that is just so true. The only voice that the most important voice in your life is your own. And I think that you just put that beautifully of how they should be listening to that. So thank you for sharing that for sharing your story. I appreciate you being on the show. This was really fun. And I loved having you here.

Donna Clark
Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Nicole Laino
And where can they stay in touch with you if they want to if they want to keep in touch with you.

Donna Clark
They can find me on my website and my podcast and all that information is listed there. It’s backstage business boss.com.

Nicole Laino
And the podcast is the backstage business boss podcast. Right? Right, they can look that up on iTunes or look that up on iTunes. We will link all of this up in the show notes as well. But if you’re listening to this, and you just want to hop on over to the search function in iTunes, or on Spotify, and find the backstage business boss podcast and keep in touch with Donna over there. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so blessed. Have a great rest of your day everybody. And remember, you are only limited by the limitations that you accept. And when you stop accepting those limitations. That is when you become limitless. Have a great rest of your day, everybody. I will see you on our next episode. Bye bye.