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Episode 197 Increase Visibility & Credibility with PR & Podcast Guesting with 1/3 Emotional Generator Rebecca Cafiero

Today we’ve got a really exciting guest episode for you! Our guest is one of Nicole’s personal mentors, affectionately dubbed the “Visibility Queen,” Rebecca Cafiero. In this episode, Nicole and Rebecca delve into the secrets of becoming a thought leader without sacrificing authenticity.

They will share with you the key differences between visibility and credibility, and why you need both, and will explore different strategies to be seen as an expert in your field, drawing from their own experiences and successes.

Rebecca shares valuable insights into the power of one-on-one relationships with power partners, enabling you to tap into new audiences without the need for relentless self-promotion. The episode also discusses the often overlooked potential of podcast guesting and how it can exponentially expand your reach and impact.

Through this conversation, you will learn about the transformational potential of podcasting, networking, and public speaking. They dismantle the myth that social media is the only path to success, showing you how to nurture meaningful connections and convert listeners into loyal clients. If you’re ready to grow your influence and build genuine connections, this episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking to make a lasting impact in their industry.

About Rebecca:

Rebecca Cafiero is a 7 figure business and Visibility strategist, Forbes Contributor, TEDx Speaker and bestselling author. As the Founder of the Pitch Club, she has worked with hundreds of female entrepreneurs to increase their credibility, visibility and profitability in business. Prior to becoming an entrepreneur, she spent 13 years in Corporate America leading sales and marketing teams. Her expertise covers business strategy, creating credibility + visibility, productivity and personal optimization. As a sought after media source, Rebecca’s tips have been featured in NBC News, ABC News, Biz TV and publications including Forbes, Women’s Health, US News & World Report and more.


Stay Connected with Rebecca:

Find out more about the brand new membership community for Human Design enthusiasts. A space I’ve carefully curated to give you EVERYTHING you need to accelerate your understanding of Human Design and take daily action to become the most authentic, unshakeable you. Find out more and sign up now at nicolelaino.com/lab.

We’d love to have you join the new Facebook Group, Human Design for Entrepreneurs so be sure to visit nicolelaino.com/podcastlinks to sign up and grab the free productivity and deconditioning guide while you are there.  

Don’t forget to enter our monthly contest where you can win your own mini reading/coaching session on the show! Leave a review for the show, take a screenshot of the review, share it on Instagram and tag @nicolelainoofficial and you’re in the drawing. 

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Learn more about your Human Design and get your full chart for free. Click here to get your free chart.

Interested in learning more about working with me? Click here to learn more about how we can work together. 


 Hello, everyone. Today it’s not just me and you. I am here with a guest and I am so excited to bring you this person. She is a friend, she is a mentor. She has had this amazing effect on me, my business, really changed my life over the course of this year, and I’m super thrilled to bring her to you.

Her name is Rebecca Cafiero. She is a seven figure business and visibility strategist. She is a Forbes contributor, a TEDx speaker, and a bestselling author. She’s the founder of The Pitch Club. She has worked with hundreds of female entrepreneurs to increase their credibility and visibility. And I am so thrilled to formally introduce you to her.

Rebecca, welcome to the show.

 Thank you. I am so excited to be here. I, for many reasons, I just adore you. You are absolutely a genius at what you do, and I’m just excited for everyone to hear how much I have benefited from knowing you because so many of the insights that you’ve given me have not only allowed me to be more effective at what I’m doing, but just have a lot more fun in my life.

 Yeah, and that’s kind of the beauty of human design is that it gives you permission, and we’re going to talk about permission today. That’s going to be kind of a theme here, and we’re going to talk about permission in lots of ways, but we’ll kick it off just talking about permission to be yourself and to do what feels right. And what you’ve been doing all along, might have worked, and particularly for someone like you, where you are so successful.

So some people think that they’ve got to get into alignment to be successful. And then there are other people on the other side of the spectrum where you are successful, things have worked, but maybe you’re running a little harder than you need to, or there are some slight shifts that will make you happier and give you more spaciousness.

And I know that was a real goal for you this year was spaciousness in your life and your business.

 That has been a goal and is a goal that I will say after six months of time, energy, investment, and also sometimes a lot of struggle. I’m feeling it, but to really go back to what you said of achieving, right? Or being successful, which I used to use success as the goal, but now it’s really fulfillment.

I grew up and I was always someone, I mean like fifth grade is when I can remember really caring about, when I look back it was achievement, right? And my dad and my mom had gotten divorced and I think that was probably me looking for that validation.

But it was fifth grade, it was a writing contest and I got chosen to represent our fifth grade to go to like, for the state and I can remember that was like the first cool thing ever. Because you know fifth grade, there’s not really electives and clubs. And then sixth grade, with that experience behind me, it made me feel special.

In sixth grade, I was like I’m gonna be in every activity, student body. And that kicked off a very long pursuit of doing all the things, trying to be the best at all the things, and it actually wasn’t about trying to be better than anyone else. It was about the internal feeling of validation. It was about the internal feeling of success.

But I want people to understand, because I think that people are surprised when they hear this, even though I was very much an achiever and did a lot of things growing up, I was the black sheep of my family. I still am the black sheep of my family. And now I realize it’s one, my human design, and my enneagram.

With kind of the dynamic of my family, I was never understood. You know, my motivations, what I wanted, I always felt like an outsider. And listen, I want to say, my parents loved me very much. They just didn’t understand me. And I think the biggest gift that I probably got as a young person was my senior year of high school.

I had a pretty massive, call it a falling out, with my family that ended up with me not living at home my senior year of high school. And up to that point, I had very much been a little bit of a people pleaser Again, always looking for that validation. I hated feeling like I was in trouble.

I hated feeling like I’d let someone down. And to be kicked out of the house because of a difference in opinion of a difference in the rules I was willing to live under. I will say I was not a bad kid, I had never even drank alcohol.

They gave me a gift in that. It was a really traumatic experience to be just turned 18 and be financially on my own, to have to figure out not only like how do I finish the school year, but now all the colleges I’ve applied to I can’t afford. How do I completely start over because I was going to go to college.

And that gave me such a gift of two things. One was it showed me I could be resourceful and it grew that muscle really strong, really young and there’s been a few times in my life I’ve forgotten how strong I can be, but I think it just showed me what’s possible when you have no other option.

But the second thing that was a gift that I can’t even put a value on it is, I was trying to make my parents happy. I was trying to make my parents happy by doing the activities, or the sports, or not dating the guy that they didn’t want, all of these things. And what I realized is even when I did all of these things that made me miserable, they still weren’t happy. There was still expectations. I was still somehow disappointing.

And the reason I ended up on my own is I was like, this is BS. I’m miserable. You’re still not happy. Every time I do the thing, the line moves, there’s another thing I need to do, or there’s a different thing. And I just said enough is enough. And you know, the world kind of blew up in flames. But on the other side of that, I was like, wait a second, me trying to make someone else happy is not going to make me happy and it won’t make them happy.

So I’m going to focus on doing what works for me and what feels good for me. Which at that time I think I was probably labeled as being very selfish, but I realize now as an adult after having done a lot of work is that the most selfish thing is being a martyr, is making yourself miserable to try to please someone else. Especially if they don’t have a life you want anyway.

And so even now I’m very focused on how do I do things that feel good to me? And in doing that, that helps me attract the people into my life when I’m in alignment and I’m energetically who I’m supposed to be. That helps me attract the right people in.

 Yep. Well, thank you for sharing that. I’d never heard that story. That was something I didn’t know. And I was also kicked out of my house when I was 16. I wasn’t out for long, but I do understand that experience and how it’s such a sliding doors moment in your life, right?

Before this happened, I was like this. And after this happened, I was different. And I should tell everybody, Rebecca is a 1/3 emotional generator and she has a wide open G center. You have a wide open G, a wide open root center.

And I love listening to people talk, and while we’ve worked together on your design, and I know that you’re into it, but you’re not like years into this experiment or anything like that. But it’s always interesting to me how people speak in the keynotes of their design, and, um, you know, where you were punished for being selfish.

 I was punished for being myself.

 And as a generator, you’re here to be yourself.

As a generator, you’re here to know yourself. You’re here to do what lights you up, not other people. And that wide open G Center is that feeling of, I don’t know my identity and nobody else does. And when you’re getting that reflected back, like, you should be this way, and it doesn’t feel right.

That G Center was telling you probably that you were in the wrong environment for you. So, when you say it was a gift, that you were asked to leave.

 It was more like came home and my stuff was in garbage bags. And I can share that because this is my podcast and I love my mom. And we just don’t really talk about it. We’ve moved past it. But, um, but one thing I’ll say is that,  as to saying that about the generator and something I’ve learned from you is when a generator is doing the things that excite them, they have this unlimited energizer bunny energy. And what excited me was school, and sports, and I love to read, but I can remember I was like the yearbook editor.

The youngest person on the yearbook and the editor and I used to take home a computer. This is like 1995. I used to take home my computer on the weekends because I was so excited about doing work. And my parents would say, you’re involved in too many things. Write everything down you’re involved in and you need to stop half of them.

And that was like death to me as a generator, who was like, yes, it’s a lot, but I love everything. And they didn’t understand that. And so that was really painful to be like, no, you can’t do these things that are giving you life.

 Right. Yeah. You weren’t in the right place. And that’s ultimately what that G center does tell you is like, you’re not in the right place. People aren’t getting you. And as with an open G you’re not going to get yourself until you are around the right people.

So there’s always going to be this, they don’t get me, they want me to change. They want me to be different. What’s really great is that you knew yourself enough. You knew what lit you up. You knew that wasn’t right. Enough to not say, okay, I should be like them.

Because that’s what happens to most open G centers is they take it on. They take on what people think they should be. You have the defined ego to support that a little bit where it’s just like, no, I know my worth. I know what lights me up. I feel like I want to achieve. I want to prove myself like it’s ingrained in me. Don’t take that away. And so that probably supported you there.

 You understand. And I know we’re not going to talk about my childhood the entire time, but I will say that hearing that again, it’s very validating because I didn’t fall in line. I didn’t do what was said. And my way is like, I’m going to negotiate.

I’m going to build a case. And that was labeled as you’re manipulative, or you don’t take no for an answer, which was shown as a bad thing. And what I’ve realized, and fortunately I’ve realized this as I’ve had children is those qualities are literally what have made me successful in business.

The first rejection, or failure, or thing not going right, I don’t collapse. And again, part of who I am and my design, but also part of the learned experience. And my daughter being a generator, she’s four and she’s so funny. I dropped her off at camp this morning. She will ask me in the morning, what do I have today, mom? And I’m like, well, I mean you’re four, but you normally, it’s, you’ve got preschool and it’s three hours long, and then in the afternoon you have a dance or gym or whatever. And she goes, that’s it? I’m like, I am the right mom for this child because I am not a, what do you call it, like the lawnmower parent? But she loves to have a lot happening.

 Yeah. I have a projector son. I’m a manifesting generator. So what I have to remember is I have to ask him. I have to invite him to things, and he has to elect to do them or it will be painful for all of us. So I really have to balance things, and really show him a lot. There’s a lot of counterintuitive stuff with raising a projector.

Is your son a projector?

 My son is too and I wish I would have known you, because you and I met almost a year ago, and I wish I would have known you before because Luca, my son, who’s seven and a half, is going to second grade and he’s always been one of those kids that he’s just good at everything he does.

He’s just like that all American kid who every sport he does, he starts BMXing and then, a month later at four he’s competing and winning trophies and then he’s like, I’m over it. And then he’s in soccer, he’s like the best kid. And as a parent that was, I had to work hard at the things I was good at, especially sports, but he won’t even want to make it through the season. So we’ve had to really reframe of we don’t put him into anything unless now he asks for it. Or I’ll say, Hey, what do you want to do?

And what we found that really demonstrated this and his design is he got into football and baseball. It’s like he’s a different kid. He is so driven. He plays at school, he goes after school and plays on his team, and then he wants to come home and play catch for three hours.

And I’m like, oh, it’s because those other things weren’t the thing that he really felt called to, and he wasn’t going to do it just to make us happy, which I don’t want him to.

 Yeah, and we don’t want to raise conformers. We want to raise the individual that we were given, not the one that we think we should have gotten. Or the one that resembles us, or fits with our worldview. And I think also coming from a place where maybe we didn’t feel as accepted at home, you felt like the black sheep, it gives you a different lens on parenting as well. Where it’s like, I’m going to honor the kid that I have, rather than try to make them who I think they should be. Or allow how they trigger me to think that there’s something wrong with them, as opposed to maybe being a mirror for me to look at myself.

But you as a 1/3, you mentioned really being able to move on, to get up when you fell down, when you had failures. That’s really essential as a three line, to be able to allow ‘no’ not to get in your way.

It’s just feedback. I adjust. And you have a bunch of three lines in your design. You’ve got them all over. Which is why I think you’re scrappy. And you are scrappy.

And I want to jump into talking about permission. We chatted a little bit before we started to record about giving people permission.

You are the visibility queen. You give people permission to be visible, to really showcase themselves. Talk to me about where you come from, with all of the women that you’ve worked with. I know you work with men too, but it’s mostly women.

 It’s 99% women. The men you never hear about, it’s behind the scenes.

 If you don’t know Rebecca, her whole brand is pink. Everything is pink. She loves pink. So it’s a very feminine brand. If you’re a man who comes into this world, you’re like Ken from Barbie.

 Men self select out. And I have a son, I have a husband, I love men. I grew up very much in my masculine as a tomboy. And so it’s one is that I didn’t feel permission to be feminine. Because I was like, I was literally called by my last name. I was like a boy.

And being driven. And so, it’s very intentional that I’m like, no, this is actually me stepping more into my femininity, and to the power versus the force, and into the flow, and into the being versus the doing. And being in pink and cream helps me do that. So.

 I love it. It gave me permission to step into my feminine a little bit more, into that girly feminine. Because that’s not my natural either. And I had to say, I’ve had a lot of fun being in your world and I should say I was in your Inner Circle for the start of this year.

And it was just an amazing experience. That’s your high ticket mastermind, which is just a beautiful, beautiful program. And I wanted to talk with you because you have many ways that you work with women on their visibility, on being an authority. But what stands out with you when people come to you?

And what do you have to work with them the most on in order to get things like PR, and step into being seen as an authority?

 It literally is permission, right? It is. And I call it permission to promote. And obviously working with females, I see so many brilliant, passionate, heart driven entrepreneurs who left the corporate job, or whatever the other thing was they were doing, and they’re pursuing what they feel is like their mission. At least their mission right now, missions can evolve.

And yet they’re struggling and I’m like, maybe sometimes it’s strategy, but it’s typically, it’s not strategy. Now I will say, since I’m talking to the queen of human design, it’s probably that they have the wrong strategy for them and so it doesn’t fill a line and they can’t execute.

But sometimes they even have the right strategy. And what it is, is that especially as a woman, we’re often told, don’t be loud. Don’t be boastful. Again, I got teased because I was the one that always raised my hand. I was the one that would speak out and advocate, is what I realized I was doing.

But, we need to understand that we are separate than our business, right? And there’s this value, in fact, I would say it’s a must of giving ourselves as this human being that’s breathing life into our business, the permission to promote, right? Our business, the value our business has, the impact it has.

And this is something I see so many women, they’re not doing it. And I don’t just mean you’re not like doing the daily things. But if you haven’t like, deeply given yourself permission to be seen, to be heard, to be valued and to receive value, you’re going to be blocked and it’s always going to feel hard.

And I don’t think there’s anything that’s more important than the time that you’re investing for you, and your vision, and your dreams, and the people that you will impact. And so this definition, if you understand what promotion is, the definition of giving yourself permission to promote yourself, it’s progressing, it’s supporting, it’s advocating something.

And we have to stop waiting for someone else to give us the permission. And again, I had that experience in childhood where I had to give myself permission. And so if you’re listening and you are like, waiting for someone out there to say, you’re an expert, or you’re good enough or whatever it is, you have to go out and create the opportunity and raise your hand and say, I’m worth it.

And I give myself permission. And I anoint myself and stop waiting for someone else to do it for you.

 Yeah, and I’m gonna I’m gonna hold off, I have my own perspective on this that I want to share. But I first want to ask you, how do you feel people get that permission? How do you help people give themselves permission to promote themselves?

 Sure. There’s a couple of different ways. So one is just really identifying or understanding that we are not our business. We are not our business. And so when we think about being told we shouldn’t talk about ourselves, or just keep your head down, you’ll get where you want by hard work. I mean, yes, you should be willing to go through seasons of hard work.

But, you need to understand that our business is not us, right? Your business is what you do, and you or your brand is who you are. And so if we understand that we are that human being that’s breathing life into the business, if we believe in the value that our products or services have, in the ability they have to impact, then you have to ask yourself, why wouldn’t you give every opportunity for that to grow?

And so I like thinking about our business like, it’s not necessarily our baby, right? I mean, some people are like it’s a business baby, whatever you want to define it as. But if you have a child, you know their pure potential. They need work, they need handholding, they need protection, they need advocacy, they need support.

And you think about what you do to help your child be successful or, if you don’t have a child, maybe your niece or nephew, or your best friend’s kids, you would advocate for their resources. You would tell them they can accomplish anything. You would give them support to accomplish whatever they set out for.

And we are the ones responsible. And it’s not just a responsibility, it’s a privilege to do that for our business. So I think that’s the first thing is understanding that we are not our business because if we feel that we’re our business, we’re going to do a ton of work to ensure that we actually can get that permission.

When we can separate it out, I think it’s easier to understand like, no, we’re actually promoting this thing, this possibility that deserves it. And we can actually take ourselves out of it.

And then my second little just tiny tip on that is if you’re really still struggling, donate a percentage of the profit of your business to your favorite charity.

Be altruistic because that will help you, or give a scholarship if that’s something you can do in your programs or services. Because when you’re focused on doing something that impacts others and is helpful to others, we tend to get more action and go deeper than we will for ourself.

 Well, and you feel differently asking for people. Because what comes out for me with separating yourself from your business is, it doesn’t become so personal. Because when you hear no, it’s a no to the business. It’s not a no to me. It’s not they don’t like me. And that’s why I don’t like the term “know like and trust” because people get so stuck.

They’re out there trying to be liked by everybody, and that causes them to not be known because they’re starting to ask themselves, should I say this about myself? What if they don’t like me because of that? Should I tell them this? what if they don’t like me? And when you’re not known, then they can’t trust you because something is off. If you’re trying to be liked, the people who trust you are not going to be the people that you really want to call in.

Cause it’s inauthentic to you.

 I love that. And then there’s one more little tip I have, and again, this isn’t going to work for everyone, but it has worked for me is, creating an alter ego. Which is like the safe place where we can promote ourselves and our business. And if you think about alter ego is a little bit of an alternative personality, right? Now, this is not about pretending to be someone else.

Let me just say that this is not about saying I’m going to be an avatar, okay? I want you to think about when you’re promoting someone else organically. Again, your best friend, that favorite product out there. I think about even the days before Instagram Influencers, what would you just talk about all of the time because you’re obsessed? Like, I love hypnobreath work, right?

So I talk about it all the time. Now I happen to invest in the app, but I would promote it regardless. Or your favorite lipstick, or your favorite chapstick, or your favorite food, or your favorite artist. And the excitement that we have, and the certainty, and the magnetism when we’re promoting those things.

You become like this cheerleader, that’s this best version of yourself. And if we can encapsulate that and say, how would I show up for that favorite person? That favorite book?

I don’t remember what the books are called. The crown of something. Anyway, I call it fairy smut. I read these books and I think I had like 25 friends that ordered these books. It was like, it is the best book and your husband will thank me. They’re pretty spicy. So when you think about like, how do I show up when I’m a huge fan of someone or something, then you already have that ability.

So how can you show up being that huge fan of your business, of yourself, and think about that when you’re going on an Instagram story, or on a podcast, or on a stage, or wherever you are. Of like, how can I channel that inner cheerleader, that alter ego into what I’m doing right now? So it feels still authentic because you actually have felt that.

 We actually do a version of alter ego in my Unshakeable Entrepreneur program, but we use your true self as your design to inform that. So it’s not you coming up with some fantasy version. It’s you actually looking at your potential that maybe you’re shying away from. So here’s how you can craft that person.

So I love that because it starts to change how you view yourself, you know, it’s like the Sasha Fierce, Beyonce’s alter ego. Beyonce was scared to get on stage earlier in her career and she had this alter ego Sasha Fierce that would get on and get on stage, and it was her.

You are the visibility queen, and you really give permission to people to be more visible. And I’ll say that for me, one of the things that was huge for me in signing up for your Inner Circle, and a big byproduct of me being in that program was, when you hear people say, being in someone’s energy. How that can change you, and how that can sound like lip service, like, oh, you pay to be in my energy.

It’s not that. It’s when someone is being something and is so fully embodied in that, when you are near them, it rubs off on you. It starts to change the way that you view yourself because you are in proximity to it. And you gave me permission to be more visible and to step into my expertise.

And I was there. I wasn’t a complete wallflower. I chose it. I was like, this is my next level of really owning this. And I want to be in this woman’s energy, in her world, to see what this does for me. And it totally had this transformative effect. So I wanted to say thank you for that. But I wanted to call that out as just how the coaching world can affect people. If you’re listening to this, these are the type of things that change you.

But when you look at visibility, how do you train people to be visible? What do you want them to focus on? Cause there’s a difference between what people think visibility is, and how someone like you approaches visibility.

So can you talk a little bit about that?

 Yes. And first of all, that is a beautiful compliment and I so appreciate that. You also have taught me that being at events, which is one of my favorite things, is where I shine. I love like being in the energy. And my husband, he said, every time you come back from a retreat or an event you do, you’re just the best version of yourself.

I’m like, yes, because community and experience are really important to me and that’s where I have both of those. One is just understanding there’s a big difference between visibility and nurture, and I think people get those really confused. So they’re like, I’m visible because I’m posting a reel everyday on social, right?

And yes, you could potentially go viral and that can be seen by people that don’t follow you. But a lot of times, even if you do go viral, it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to get a bunch of followers. And if you do it, unless they’re engaging with your content on a consistent basis, they may follow you and never see your stuff again.

So understanding that. And when you talk to your email list, or you talk to your social media following, you are just nurturing a small percentage of the audience that already follows you. And the reality is most of them are not ideal clients. And even if they are, the chances that the ones that are ready, willing, and able are going to see what you’re offering at the exact time is like, what do you say?

Like shooting fish, right? Visibility is really about being seen by audiences that don’t already know you. That is the goal of visibility, is to be seen by new eyeballs. New human beings, new people to impact. And I like to talk about this, I call it the expert triangle, the visibility, the credibility, and then how that leads to profitability.

Because there are some things out there that we’re going to do that are going to be amazing for visibility, for new eyes. There’s some things that are going to be amazing for credibility. They’re both really important. I want to treat them like sisters. Because there are people out there that I’m sure you see them on social media.

You might even follow them They could be entertaining, or you’re like, I love watching their travel pictures or I love their outfits. But having that visibility doesn’t necessarily mean that you feel like they’re credible. Where you would spend thousands of dollars, or tons of time with them.

And I think this is where I have a lot of amazing clients that come to me, because they’re like, hey, I’m a doctor and I get these incredible results, but no one knows who I am. I have no audience. And it’s very hard to monetize and also create the impact desired if you have very little visibility.

So I look at the two. Now, when we think about what does this visibility look like? Me, knowing this from you, I have an open G center, which means I’m never going to tell everyone they need to do the same thing. Which is not duplicatable in the world of coaching, right? Because it makes it harder to be like, this is the one thing, but I don’t feel like it is for everyone.

While there are best practices that typically work for most people, I think it’s very important for someone to understand their personality type, their design, what lights them up. Because if I tell someone that’s maybe a little bit of an introvert or private, you need to be on social media every day and that’s how you’re going to grow your business.

One of two things will happen. They’ll either procrastinate and then feel shame and that’s just going to affect them overall. Or they’re going to do it, but energy wise they’re not going to show up. Energetically. It will be off. People will feel that and it won’t convert. It won’t have the impact that they desire.

So one of the things I always do is I ask people, I’m like, what lights you up? Maybe not what platform, but do you love to speak? Cause I have people that are like, I love to speak one on one, but I never want to be on stage. I’m like, great. Podcasting is for you. Or podcast interviewing.

Or they’re like, I want to be on stage. I’m like, okay, great. Let’s talk about speaking opportunities, which is a lot like podcast guesting, but it’s a bit different. Or they’re like, I want to be seen as a thought leader, but I never want to be interviewed. They want to contribute to publications.

Or they’re like, I want to be a celebrity, let’s get you on TV. But I also have had clients like, you know, we both love Elise. When we first started working together, she’s like, I don’t want to ever post on social. And I go, okay, so should never be a numbers game for her.

And knowing the type of person she is, I said, I think that you’re really going to excel in those one to one relationships with people that have an audience. So this is the other visibility. Instead of trying to get on a million podcasts, or on social media, I was like, if you have a few, we call them power partners, you share an audience, but you don’t compete.

She’s a phenomenal trainer or teacher. So 75-80% of her business has came from The Pitch Club. The other I think is come from another program. She teaches in these two different programs. She has never posted about her business outside of celebrating its birthday on her social media. She doesn’t do email marketing for herself.

She does it for everyone else. And so understanding what is the right visibility so that you feel aligned? And if you’re in alignment with your design, with what lights you up, you’re going to show up in a way that energetically is going to pull in or magnetize those people you’re meant to work with.

 And just to talk about just that visibility, credibility piece. There are a certain type of visibility that builds both of those at the same time. So something like what Elise does by teaching in other programs, she’s building visibility, but she’s also building credibility because she is being anointed by you and your program, and the other program that she teaches in, as saying she is an expert, she’s someone I trust, she’s someone I use.

Here’s a resource for you. So when people see her, it’s not just someone off the street, whereas social media, it is you. This is my credibility platform. A lot of people think that podcasting is visibility. And while it is to some degree, podcast guesting is visibility.

Podcasting, your own podcast is the nurture part. That’s the content. That’s the part where it’s like, get them over to the podcast and deepen the relationship. And you can do that really quickly. People binge 10 episodes. They book a reading with me. They join my programs. They do all sorts of things, because I got through to them very, very quickly and in a really deep way.

But it’s not how most people find me necessarily. They do.

 But it’s where they deeper dive.

 But that’s not my main visibility strategy.

 But it’s where they deeper dive with you. And yes, I think that a lot of people think that. And I know that you know how to build visibility through podcast hosting, because it doesn’t technically build visibility unless one of two things. You’ve got guests on that promote the episodes, and that’s a way to get in front of their audiences.

And then the second is if you are consistent and you’re doing well on say iTunes or something, the algorithm, they will share it. But a lot of people just think they can put something out there and it will get visibility. Not unless it’s done right.

 There are definite ways you can do it, and that’s part of another part of the strategy, but it is not if you build it, they will come.

 Podcast swapping. Literally, we interviewed yesterday for my podcast. So if you’re a podcast host, guesting on other podcasts, ideally doing a swap is a great way.

I call it the visibility ladder and we’ll just start at the top, which I normally start at the bottom, but TV is at the top because it’s either theoretically the hardest to get, I actually would say that, having full thought leadership byline writing for publications is actually probably the hardest.

But most people don’t want to write so they just take that out of the equation. They’re like, I’m not a writer. So if you think about what most people can do, most people can talk for two minutes on a sound mic in a TV interview, right? And everyone just thinks like, when you’re on TV, you’ve made it.

And you’ve got those terrible DMs from the spammy companies that are

 My goodness.


press, right? Mogul press. That’s it. This is not defamation. They might be legitimate, but it’s like for $75, we can get you on this. And then you’re going to get 5,000 followers.

I’m just here to tell you that is not true. But I’m on TV all the time. This week I did a national interview and it was in 40 million households. Now let’s be very real, I don’t know how many people actually saw that. That means it was on a station that technically gets to 40 million households. I’m on the show every month.

I always ask clients when they come in, where’d you hear about me? And it’s usually, I saw you speak at an event, or in a group, or I heard you on a podcast. Those are the biggest areas. It is not. Yeah, exactly. Same for you. Right. And if that’s long form content, by the way, which is going to be a lot deeper, it’s more of a, is this a hell yes or hell no.

So back to TV. I could say that I should have been seen by over a billion viewers the amount of times I’ve been on national TV. I don’t know that I’ve ever had a client from TV. However, the credibility piece, when I’m sharing TV with my audience, or I’m sharing my TV speaking reel for an event where I’m going to speak in person or whatever else, that credibility opens up doors to visibility that actually is monetizable.

 It’s great B roll.

 Exactly, it’s free B roll. It’s amazing B roll, right? And you know, yeah, listen, it also, what does it do? It can justify higher rates because you look like an expert. So I’m not saying it’s not beneficial. It is, it’s fun.

But I don’t think people really understand that you can get in front of an audience, but where profit happens is when you actually convert listeners, or viewers, or readers if it’s an article to a lead. Which that’s such a sales term, but someone’s excited enough about you, and they feel like you can offer them something that’s valuable. Which by the way, if they’re consuming for free that needs to be free, which is usually an email lead magnet, an email opt in, some type of gift. Then they’re compelled to go and get more of a transformation.

If you’re talking, which I love talking. If you’re podcasting, if you’re speaking, if you create a feeling, if you give them a feeling so they feel connected, or inspired, or whatever that feeling is. And then you teach them something. So you give them something tangible that if they never listened to you again or never interact with you, they walk away and they just know something that’s going to help them if they do something with it.

But the third is are they activated? Did you give them a call to action? For example, pulling back the curtain, so for all of you that are like struggling with the permission, I have on my website, rebeccacafiero.com/permissiontopromote, so all spelled out, T O promote, I have this little free mini course and the coolest thing is I have an actual permission slip, it’s signed by me, you print it out, you sign it, you sign it digitally. You put it somewhere so you are reminded, hey, I gave myself permission. There’s a little visualization exercise in there.

So, if I’m talking about permission, I should have said, here’s a way to help you give yourself that permission. And if you’ve done those things right, then the person that’s listening that has never heard or seen you before will ideally want to be in your world. And that’s the first step.

And the reason that it’s better to have them not just following you on social, but engaging with you in email is they actually will get it. There’s a better chance they’ll see whatever that thing is that you’re offering them or your advice, your insights as you’re nurturing them.

So that’s why I love podcasting. Yes, I love public speaking. It converts really well, but podcasting lives forever. And I wanted to share something that it’s so funny. I just was doing a podcasting workshop yesterday and literally I didn’t even think about this. I didn’t share it, but you’ll probably see it today.

When you’re a podcast guest, even on a small podcast. So, I’m on Nicole’s podcast. Audience that never has heard me before, like your audience, will hear me. And if they like me, then they can come into my world. They’re called. I’m inviting them if they get value.

But here’s the exciting thing. We think about that. We’re like, ooh, and you have her listeners, but six months from now when you have a different guest on, and that guest shares that episode with their audience, and some of their audience comes over. They’re like, oh my gosh, I love Nicole. They start binging your podcast and then they hit my episode and they’re like, ooh, I love her.

So that’s the ripple. It’s like a downline in network marketing. It’s how many people can you impact, right? So I just think that people don’t realize the potential reach of podcasting. Because if you do a reel, the views don’t usually grow after a week. Or in a very small fashion, but with podcasting it grows, and grows, and grows, and grows, and grows.

The second thing that is it really exciting that happens is, you can use that for so much content repurposing. If I am speaking about things that light me up, and I’m excited about, I can make a reel from the video. Or I can transcribe that and put it into a quote graphic, or into a post. Or I can make an email about it, and then do a PS like catch more of this on the episode. It can start to guide all of our content. And by the way, all of you listening, you have literally the best mentor, Nicole, because she’s helping you authentically market yourself.

This is just another platform to do it.

 Exactly. I love all of this. And what you said there about evergreen, this is evergreen. Podcasting is evergreen. If you’re a guest on a podcast, it lives out there forever. If you have a podcast, then anytime someone finds you, they might check out your podcast.

It’s an easy, yes. People say yes to I have a podcast. I’ll check that out. Unless it sounds completely not compelling or not specific enough to them. And that’s why I love what you do and it speaks so much to me, because I teach the next step. Which is the top of the funnel. It’s the visibility.

What are these key parts that are going to build you up to be super credible and to get you in front of new eyeballs?

 And it’s fun.

 When you stop being terrified of it, it’s fun. When you stop being terrified of people telling you no, it’s fun. For some people it’s more challenging.

I do have to say, I have a specific thing in my design that makes it difficult for me, or I know why it’s a strange feeling for me to promote myself. A bridging gate of mine is the gate of promotion, the promoting yourself, promoting the self, promoting your work as an individual.

And so that has always been a place where I would pour a lot of energy, and it just always felt off. And it’s one of the biggest clues to me into what the shadow feels like. So I had to find different ways into it, and I had to work with my design to be like how can I make this feel good and not feel like I’m pouring into my gate eight and trying to fill up this empty space that has a big hole at that bottom of the bucket where it’ll never quite fill up in the way that I want it to.

And part of that was getting into the energy of somebody who had that energy, and who could bridge things in different ways for me and show me a different way. And you opened me up to a whole world because I will say there’s podcast guesting, but it’s also, it’s networking. Visibility, it’s networking.

We totally underestimate the impact that it can have just talking to people and making real connections with people in this industry who are power partners, people who have adjacent businesses to yours where they’re in a similar industry, or the same industry where you serve the same people in different ways.

When you can start partnering with those people, that’s when your business can take off and things can really start to change for you. So there’s so much more to it. I could talk to you forever, but we’re just about outta time. But I did wanna thank you for opening everybody’s eyes to that.

I really wanted to talk about this on the show and I’m so happy I did it here with you. Which is that visibility can be so much different. It’s not just about being on social every single day. In fact, that’s actually not it at all. There are these other ways, networking, podcast guesting, speaking in groups, speaking at events.

These are all ways that you can be getting visible, which is going to fuel that second part that you are pouring all of your energy into right now, which social media. So I love this. I love you. Thank you for being here. Tell everybody where they can learn more about you and keep in touch with you and find out how you can help them get more visible.

 Yes. So rebeccacafiero.com and again, the permission to promote, if you do /permissiontopromote. The other thing is if you just Google my name and pitch P I T C H templates, I have a podcast pitch template that is so irresistible as a podcast host also, I’ve seen so many terrible pitches. And I’ve really pulled together the best components and we’ve helped hundreds of women get thousands of podcast episodes that have resulted in millions of dollars of business.

 Amazing. Yes, check that out because I want to contribute also to people sending out better podcast pitches because I get terrible ones all the time myself. So please go check that out. We’ll link all of that up in the show notes for you guys. You don’t have to go and find that, but I highly recommend it, but you can also go to the show notes and we will link you up there magically.

I’ll also say that we have a free guide for you right now. If you’re interested in podcasting by design, we actually have a free guide for you that we’ve created. You can go to nicolelaino.me/podcastbydesign, all one word. And you can grab that free guide for you there. If you’re interested in starting a podcast or if you’ve started one, and it’s not quite singing for you, we’ve got something there for you as well.

Rebecca, thank you for being here. Thank you for all that you do. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. I appreciate you. And then we appreciate you listener for making it all the way to the end of this episode. Remember in order to have an unshakeable business, you must first become an unshakeable human.

And that’s what we’re here to help you do. So go out there and be unshakeable. Everyone we’ll see you in the next one. 

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