Hello and welcome to Unshakeable with Human Design, everybody. I’m your host, Nicole Laino, and I am so happy to be here, not by myself today, but with my good friend, Jess Burgio. Jess is, I’m honestly, I’m going to deviate from the traditional bio, and I’m going to talk about what I know about Jess.

Jess is one of those people that I creeped for a long time on Instagram. I watched her, I saw her, the way that she engaged with people, the way that she showed up, and I was drawn to her. I think that she’s a great example of what being magnetic is, where it’s not so much that you’re necessarily investing thousands of dollars with people off of one post, but it was just like, I want to know her.

I want to get to know her. And then I had a ticket for something, and I offered it to Jess because it was an event in her town and we got to meet for the first time right there at that event. And now here we are,

I’ve been on her show. She has an amazing podcast called Unscripted, which is incredible.

She has the most amazing guests, and she’s one of the best interviewers that I’ve heard in a really long time. I love, love, love her show and I love her energy. She’s a community builder. She’s a former stylist and salon owner. She has this wealth of experience and I think is just this amazing example of what someone does when they’re just determined to succeed and they’re willing to put in the work to see how every step unfolds along the way, and just remaining dedicated and really driven. So Jess, welcome to the show.

Oh my gosh. Thank you. What a beautiful introduction. I love that so much. Could you write all that down?

And that will be my new intro.

Well, tell everybody what I didn’t tell them. Introduce yourself, let listeners know a little bit about you that I left out there.

Well, I am a self proclaimed high energy hype girl. Like she said, there’s something that I naturally am gifted with, which is bringing people into my world.

Sometimes it doesn’t always bring people in, and hopefully I’m learning now that sometimes it pushes the people away that aren’t meant to be in your world. So I just love a good vibe. I love creating a good vibe. It’s why I loved and thrived in the salon industry for many, many years. I think. And once I met Nicole, I got to learn a little bit more about why that was possible through human design. And it’s one of the things I know we’re going to dive into, but I’m a mom. I have a almost 13 year old who’s in sixth grade. That’s been interesting to navigate and has thrown my life for a curve ball, for sure. I now do have a podcast. Yeah, it’s called Unscripted.

I’ve been doing the podcast for almost four years now. We just hit our 300th episode. And I’ve learned so much just about myself and about commitment and consistency through the podcast, which I tell people that I think I found my voice through podcasting and the ability to connect with so many people at such a high level in a very focused way, has literally changed my life.

And so that will be the next book, it’s my first announcement. I was talking to Jake about, I want to write a book around how a podcast can change your life. But I get the honor of coaching other women in the entrepreneurial space who are usually at some sort of a pivot in their life or career where they’re looking to make a change.

So I have a lot of people moving from corporate into the coaching space, people who maybe have tried entrepreneurship in the past, but didn’t have a clear strategy or plan. Didn’t really know how their skill sets or soft skills fit into potentially what they wanted to do. And so I get to play in that world of helping people figure things out and take action.

So that’s what we’ve been up to over here.

I love that. And I love the way that you approach things. There is such an open hearted perspective and way that you approach life and approach business. And I do want to say, because this is a human design show, Jess is actually a really rare human design type.

She’s a 4/1 emotional projector, which projectors are already 20%. Then we cut that in half by making you emotional. And then we go and add the 4/1, which the 4/1 profile is the most rare of profiles. Means that you have a fixed fate. And this is one of the things, when I see people living their design, even without knowing that they’re doing it. That feeling like you’re on a track, you may not know where it’s going, but you trust the track and you trust yourself. That is everything about a 4/1. You can’t be pulled on somebody else’s journey. It’s your journey. And that journey is you discovering yourself, trusting yourself, and it can be interesting.

And then you have an open G Center, which through the different environments that you’re in, through the people that you meet, you’re picking up, do I belong here or don’t I? Is this my place? Is this not, are these my people? Are they not? And the more you’re in community with the people that are right for you, the more your path unfolds. That’s where your direction comes from.

So, it’s so interesting. I love to call out whatever my guests are on the show. I’m like, let everybody know what your design is.

Yeah. And I always take extra notes when you are talking about me, because I always hear something that I didn’t hear the last time, or that I’d forgotten.

And so it’s these, this is literally one of the most powerful things. Obviously, if you’re listening to this podcast, you’re interested in human design. I would imagine. But there’s so much depth to what you can continue to learn about yourself. In different seasons of your life, different things will land differently.

And so every single time I talk to Nicole, I learned something different, or I’m reminded of something, or something makes more sense in my life that didn’t make sense before. So I’m a huge fan of your work and how you approach things. And for always bringing it back to the things about us that make us uniquely different.

Because a lot of people are searching for that. And so this is such a beautiful way to find that in you.

Thank you. And I think there’s a common misconception with human design that you need to be lost to go and to have to find your path, but it’s the little clues. It’s the things that tell you I know where I’m going, but if I just had this little bit of information, that one little thing can make so much click that could help you figure out if that decision, that thing that’s been on your heart, that maybe you’ve been denying and you feel the pull toward.

That one thing, like hearing that your conscious sun is gate 37 and it has to do with community, and that your fixed fate is going to have to do with community, and friendship, and family, that might help you deny or accept an offer, an invitation, a piece of recognition that comes to you and helps you either take a step or walk away from it. So I appreciate you saying that, and I’m happy that you get that experience when I talk about human design. It’s always my hope. But I want to talk to you about podcasting.

And when I have friends on particularly, I think that there’s a great benefit to people hearing a conversation that we would have even if we didn’t have microphones in front of us. And I think that you and I both have grown our business, I think we have that in common where the podcast changed everything. The podcast, for me, gave me focus. It gave me a little playground for me to test and workshop. Like a gym. I got to work out my message. I got to work out my brand. I can get on stage now and not even think twice. If I really were like blocked and was like, I don’t know what I’m going to say.

If someone went to go pull me up out of an audience and say, do you have 10 minutes? We need you to fill. If I was totally blocked, I could go back and just look at podcast episodes. And I could say, I’ve carefully thought through 280 ideas that I have to choose from. I have this bank of material that is so valuable in so many ways.

Can you talk about your experience with podcasting and what it’s done for your business?

Hmm. There’s so much there. I agree with you on now having a arsenal of conversations that I can bring to the table. And that’s, what’s always so fun and interesting when people have me on their show of like, what do you want to deep dive into?

I’m like, listen, I’ve had just about every conversation you could possibly think of between the 300 plus episodes I’ve done for my own show, probably another hundred. I’ve been a guest on someone else’s show. And then 20 plus years of having all varieties of clients in my chairs at the salon, you know how it is when you sit down with somebody to get your hair done, you tend to share or overshare.

And so, that is true for me as well. I feel so much more rooted in my message. I’m able to convey a message from start to finish much more concisely than I ever was before I had a podcast. I’ve refined how I approach conversations, I’ve studied my own tape, if you will, and many other interviewers that I love of how do I become better at what I’m doing?

And everything’s a rep. And like you said, it’s a playground to discover, what do I love talking about? What gets me excited to sit down in front of the microphone? Who do I want to have these conversations with and being able to steer the ship, right? Knowing that I’m a projector. There’s just things that we know, and we have these intuitive nudges that like, I don’t know how I know this, but I know this and I know energy and I can read people.

And so when I vibe with somebody, we have really great episodes and it took me about two years before I actually got the guts up to start the podcast because I was like, everybody else, am I going to be consistent? Am I going to be able to do this? Every week for forever. Cause there’s really no end date.

It’s not like a six week gym challenge. But you can, there are actually no rules. So if you are someone who’s thinking about starting a podcast and think, Oh, well, there’s no end date I could never, you can end it whenever you want. You can take a break whenever you want. You can put out one episode a year if you want. You can use the platform, however you see fit. Obviously quantity is just as important as quality these days, but the quantity will help you get the reps in to develop your style. Do you love doing solo episodes? Do you love being funny? Do you want to be educational? Do you want to be known for a specific topic?

And so that’s what you can play with. And I had an agency for a while where this is exactly what we did. We helped other people start and launch their podcasts. And I got to see myself come through in their shoes many times with the fear of will I have enough content?

Will I have enough to say? And if you’re living your life, you will have plenty to say. And you at times just have to be brave enough to share what you’re going through and document it in real time, instead of perhaps waiting until you figured something out. That’s why social media is so popular is because the people who are willing to document the process of something is far more exciting than watching someone’s after story. We want to be taken along on the ride, and you can do that with a podcast.

And aside from that, I’ve made so many connections with friends because if you think about how much time you get with one person on a podcast, It’s probably a lot more than you’re getting with a variety of people that you love in your life. You might not get one hour of undivided attention with your best friend. And here I’m getting one hour of undivided attention from a guest that I probably couldn’t even afford to do a coaching program with if really we put that on the table. So when I realized it was going to give me access to people I might not otherwise ever have a chance to say even hello to, I was all in.

Because as someone who is just naturally curious, I call myself a nosy bitch, but somebody very nicely said, no, you’re just a very curious person. I said, I like that better. That sounds more professional. I thought that’s what makes me such a good interviewer is because I’m not afraid to ask the hard questions. I’m constantly thinking of questions to ask people. I’m my mom now, I’m the person that says hello to people in the elevator. I annoyingly will compliment somebody in the grocery store line, or if someone seems like they’re in a bad mood, I’ll try to make them laugh. And so all of those soft skills that you might be someone listening, thinking, I do that, that would make me a good podcaster? Those are the little things that can help you be just a little bit different than anybody else who might have a show.

And that’s another thing that’s kind of the problem is, there’s this new era of, everybody’s doing that now, there’s no room for me. Or those people only blew up on Instagram or podcasting because they’ve been doing it for 10 years. Well, I was a hairdresser. How many hairdressers are there in the world? And nobody, when I went to beauty school said, you shouldn’t go to beauty school. There’s already enough hairdressers in the world. Nobody was talking like that back then. Nobody says you shouldn’t go be a doctor. There’s too many doctors in the world.

And so it’s interesting how in the online space. We feel like everything’s oversaturated because we’re inundated with so much shit, but at the end of the day, like I said earlier, you can be for somebody or you cannot be for somebody. And so when you choose a platform like podcasting, you really can go all in on who you are and develop a brand as you create conversation.

And so, I started off actually with a podcast called the beauty inspires beauty podcast. Where during COVID and my salon was closed, I started interviewing my friends in the beauty industry, asking them how they were doing. Are you okay? What’s happening in your world? How are you coping with all of this? And then the conversation kind of ended there and we moved into, and by the way, you’re super successful. How did that happen? How did you get into the industry? What are you doing now to diversify your income? What would you have done differently when you started?

And that’s where I was like, wait a second. I’m really good at this. I actually really like this. And now I want to talk to more than just hairdressers. Oh, shoot. Have I pigeonholed myself into the podcast being called beauty inspires beauty. Now I could have taken it one way and stayed talking only to beauty professionals, which are entrepreneurs. Or what I wanted to do was expand my reach, still include the beauty industry, but talk to more early stage entrepreneurs about how they could develop a personal brand, whether it be through podcasting or just starting to put themselves out there in a different way.

Because in my background, 25 years ago, we didn’t have social media. We barely knew how to use the internet for promotion. I did guerrilla marketing. I used to get all dolled up, go to Nordstrom’s, pass out my cards. That’s how I built my business was from referrals and guerrilla marketing, not from social media.

And so when people are coming into the space now, they’re like, how do I do all of this? There’s a lot of overwhelming stuff when it comes to podcasting, but it’s actually more simple than you think.

And I have a resource. I know Nicole can help people with podcasting too, but there’s a lot of great resources that can help you get out of overwhelm and into action. But, all that to say, yeah, podcasting has changed the trajectory of how I’m able to show up and how I’m able to reach people. Because with a brick and mortar space, with a one to one in a location, I couldn’t speak to a lot of people. I could impact the small group of people that I got to see in the daily and those around me, but I didn’t have a big enough reach.

And I knew that where I was at in my life and business, I wanted to create more impact in a bigger way. And the podcast is giving me that opportunity.

Yeah. And I think one of the things that people really discount is, of course there’s that question, will I have enough content?

Will I have something to say for weeks and weeks and weeks on end? Because I have people who come to me for human design and they’re like, I’m a reflector. Can I have a podcast? Am I going to have the energy for it all the time? And I’m like, it’s all in the way that you structure it.

I had a manifestor who is interested in starting a podcast, but she’s like, I hate everything that I do eventually. And I’m like, well, you’re a manifestor. That’s just normal for you. You’re going to say, this makes me sick. I don’t want to do this anymore. But I was like, what about the concept of seasons?

Recognize where you’re putting up a blocker. Do you want it or not? Cause if you don’t want it, that’s a different story, but if you want it and you’re afraid, it’s really the fear that I think puts up the blockers where your brain starts to say, that sounds scary.

That sounds confronting. I’m afraid of the judgment. I’m afraid of the, who does she think she is kind of thing, and all of the excuses come up. What if we run out of content? What if it doesn’t grow? What if it just takes up a lot of our time? What if I hate it after six months? What if I hate it after six weeks? Most podcasts don’t make it past 20 episodes, which is a staggering statistic. So here’s the thing that a lot of people don’t understand, I don’t think, is that if you hang out in the game, And you have a good quality podcast. I’m not talking like crazy production or anything like that.

If you do that and you hang for a while, you will already be toward the front of the pack. You just end up there because everybody else falls off the race. So if you’re just willing to put in the work, which that was another thing that I wanted to talk to you about that I think could benefit everybody here, particularly the people who are at that early middle stage of their business, the value of the long game. If you’re looking for a podcast, or your offer, or your launches, or whatever to pay off in four to six weeks, you’re probably going to be disappointed. And I know you haven’t had this, like you’ve had a lot of different businesses, you’ve tried a lot of different things, but what is your perspective on the long game? Because I think it’s also interesting from a projector’s standpoint where I think there’s a common misconception that projectors don’t have energy.

I should say that Jess has three motor centers defined, so you are a highly energetic projector. But from this projector’s perspective where you don’t have sustainable energy is really the thing. You need to take those breaks. What is your perspective on playing the long game and allowing things to build?

Because you’ve done that, I think, with relationships. You’ve seen things and said, that’s an opportunity. And then it doesn’t seem like you’ve expected instant results, and you’ve stayed with them. Do I have that right as far as your experience with that?

Oh yeah. And nobody told me, just like maybe no one’s told you until this very moment that nothing happens overnight. And I think, fortunately and unfortunately my hair business did kind of happen overnight. And so I did have a warped sense of things being able to be easier than they were, but if I look back over my career, it was a long game, yes, but it was a long game of being consistent and being available and doing the work.

And I didn’t get into the beauty industry to think, if this doesn’t work out in a couple of weeks, I’m not going to do it anymore. If this fails, then I’m not going to keep doing this. I never thought that once, but for some reason, now we have this perceived notion that things shouldn’t take very long. And if I don’t have sold out launches, or if I don’t have a lot of people downloading my podcast, what’s the point? And again, I coach people that have podcasts through that sticky situation, because even if you can get past 20 episodes, you’re going to be comparing yourself to other people’s downloads and how many DMs they get, or how many re shares they’re getting on their podcast, or how many reviews someone else has that you don’t have yet.

And I say to people, did you get into podcasting for the short game? You have to be in it for the long game. You will not go viral with a podcast. If you want things to be quick and overnight, you better get good at making TikTok reels and good at really solid hooks with calls to action. And there are platforms where things can happen overnight, but will you be ready for it is always my question. What are you setting yourself up for?

And so I think it takes some time to figure out where you fit in, in the podcast space, but also in maybe your entrepreneurial journey. Because if at the end of the day, you’re just trying to make some money, we can make money doing anything. We can make money doing anything. And right now there’s a whole lot less work involved in going to just get a job.

A lot of these companies pay decently 20, 30 bucks an hour. You’ve got benefits, you’ve got all sorts of support and structure and you’re told where to be and how to do it. And there’s nothing you got to figure out. You just got to check that box and you get that paycheck. And I want to just remind people of that because it is a gift to choose entrepreneurship.

No, one’s making you do this. And so I see a lot of people that sit in that, Oh, this is so hard. I said, well, choose a different hard then. It might be hard to tell everybody you work at Chick fil A at 35 years old. I don’t know, is that too hard for you? What would be harder? What would make you feel aligned in your life and your business, putting everything you have into it or just toe dipping into something? I can tell when someone’s fully invested in something and when they’re not. They get results or they don’t. They’re happy with the little bit of results or they’re not. People that always find something wrong, or things don’t happen fast enough are the ones that are actually not probably putting enough effort into something.

Because if you put your whole heart into something, if you worked as hard as you possibly know, you could, if you did all the things that a coach told you to do, or a framework of something, and it doesn’t work, that type of person is going to be like, I did everything possible. Let me tweak this, take whatever little data I got from this experience and make it better.

And they keep going because they have a vision and a why for what they’re doing. And I think with a podcast, having a vision and a why for me was really important. And I actually recorded over 25 episodes in person with video before I even launched my show, because I wanted to prove to myself that I could do this podcast before I put it out into the world, because I’m not somebody who likes to say, I’m going to do something and not do it.

I do care what people think, and my reputation is my brand. And I think a lot of people forget that. And it’s not to say that you can’t say you’re going to do something and not do it. We can all change our mind and that’s fine. And I learned that the hard way when I chose to step away from the beauty industry, because I had over a book of 200 clients and I owned a salon.

So I had employees and people that worked for me and looked up to me and that I mentored. And do you think that all 220 of those people were happy about my decision to step into a different field? Absolutely not. So talk about not even getting the support that you wanted. It came in the form of, oh, that’s so exciting, but who’s going to do my hair? What about me?

So when I started asking myself, what about me? What do you want? That’s when things started to become a little bit easier. And that’s when I got to dig my feet in and be like, yeah, what about you? When are you going to put your wants, needs, desires first and create something that feels aligned for you?

I didn’t know how podcasting was going to feel. I didn’t know how it was going to affect my life. I had hopes that it would create opportunity, but that was the only thing I really had an expectation on is I’m going to try this podcast and see if I can’t create some sort of opportunities out of it.

And It’s opened up so many doors because I’ve put myself in rooms to learn from a variety of different people who do different things in business. While the first 20 years, I stayed around all hairdressers only learning from one particular industry. So I didn’t get to learn all of those things. And again, back to your question of, what are my thoughts on the long game? In this day and age, if you are not committed to something fully, with the intention of playing the long game, choose an easier route, choose something that doesn’t require as much commitment.

Because the results will speak from the fact that you’re just not as committed as you might think you are. And you said earlier about fear being a factor of why people don’t start. I do think it’s fear of what people think, but I also think it’s a fear of overwhelm, of how much work it’s going to take. Because it is a lot of work. Podcasting is a lot of mental energy. It’s a lot of forethought into creating valuable content that’s going to land with your potential client. If that’s what you’re using your podcast for, like a marketing piece of your business. But that’s the fun part is you get to discover those things along the way by putting yourself out there.

So for the longest time, I still did hair while I funded my side hustle business, which was the podcast. Well, then when the podcast started creating an awareness that I even existed, creative visibility for me. I was able to then tease out offers of what would you guys want from me? A retreat? Would you like one to one coaching?

So I launched my first group coaching program for hairdressers. It was the six figure stylist course. And because I chose a path, I chose a launch. I was able to bring a couple people into my world. Three to be exact. And then I had three or four other people come around the back door because they saw I had put myself out there. And say things to me like, I already make six figures, Jess, would you be able to coach me on X, Y, or Z?

And that’s when I started to really realize the mindset around my industry of what does six figures mean? And I was like, what does six figures mean to you? Is it literally 100, 000? Or do you make 999, 000? And I started to see people shift and think differently, cause in their head, six figures meant I hit 100, 000 in my business.

And so it was fun to dig into that mindset around the glass ceiling for us in this industry. You could make more, you could do more, you could have more. What do you want? Who are you? And it just led me into this curiosity, because for the longest time I was in that box, I thought I had hit the glass ceiling. I’ve proven to everybody that I could be a successful hairdresser.

Because let me tell you, when I was 19 years old, deciding to go to beauty school, everybody was like, that’s not a real career. You need to get a real job. But 20 years later, I quote unquote, prove them all wrong, but realize as I sat making just shy of 200, 000, is this it?

Is this as good as it can be? Am I just going to sit here and for the next 20 years be okay with A, only making this amount of money, B, never having tried to do anything else and put myself out there in a different way, and C, the amount that I was working, I was so much away from my son. I wanted to explore creating opportunities for myself that would allow for me to have flexibility that was different than a brick and mortar. And so to say that I was super invested in playing the long game was full, because my why was to be home and available during the times of day that my son needed me.

And I really couldn’t do that even with my owning a salon. So there’s a lot of levels to that, but I think ultimately the question is, what legacy do you want to try to create while you’re still here so that you can actually enjoy it? I had a conversation yesterday with a woman who’s in her fifties. She’s got a multimillion dollar business. They make spray tanning products, and all the devices that go with it, and the machinery. And she doesn’t need a podcast, but she loves getting into rooms. She loves networking. She loves building community. And she wants to expand the business even more.

And she’s recently moved from LA to Phoenix. And that’s how I met her at one of the Laurie Harder’s girlfriends and business events. And we connected the other day cause she saw me post something about podcasting. And so she said, hey, I’m talking to a few other producers about starting my show. I would love to pick your brain.

I said, sure, no problem. So we get on a call yesterday. We talked for about an hour and there was all those things we just talked about, that fear of I’m not really sure exactly what I want to talk about. I do think it’s focused on the beauty industry, And then I started asking her questions and she’s like, I know so much about this industry and I’ve built this and I’ve done that.

And so, long story long, I said, here’s your homework. I want you to make a list of all of the things that you’ve accomplished in your life, big or small, all the hardships you’ve pushed through, all the things that you’ve managed to figure out that haven’t taken you down or taken your business under. And then I want you to create a list of all of the fun guests you’d want to have on your show. Who would you want to bring in from the industry that could provide value? And at the end of it, we discovered she did really want to talk about the industry. She wanted to be connected to more beauty professionals.

The irony is, what is my background? 20 years in the beauty industry. So then the conversation led to her needing a VP of marketing, her needing help for this. She kept going, well, you’d be really good at this. You could help me with this. You could do this with me and my business. And fun fact too, is I’m a two on the Enneagram, which is a supportive helper.

So I love this role of helping people figure things out while also being. Of use. So it was just an interesting conversation that whatever comes from it, I don’t know, but we were able to give her some clarity that yes, a podcast would be really fun for her because like I said earlier, we either have done something that we can then share with the world to sell our products or services or knowledge.

You’ve either created something by doing it, or like me, you want to do something while you’re creating, which is the podcast and it’s become what I’m now known for. So it was just a cool conversation to get to have with her. And then I woke up to a text this morning saying, thank you so much for sharing your time with me and giving some insight and shifting my perspective on this.

I definitely do want to start a podcast. And I definitely know I need some support and help. Let’s talk some more. So it was cool. And if I hadn’t been chatting about it on Instagram, if I hadn’t been sharing it, if I hadn’t put myself in that room, I would have never met this woman. So it’s crazy the long game that can come from building the relationships, from continuously talking about something that lights you up and from just inviting people in to have a conversation with you.

I want to call one thing out there, by the way, those were invitations, you’re a projector, she was inviting you. She was recognizing you. That’s what happens with projectors. You don’t have to be selling yourself to be recognized. You don’t have to be like, hey, I do this. And then someone recognizes you and invites you. Usually it’s you being who you are and people are like, I think you can help me with this.

I think you’re really good at that. That’s just how it works. So for all the projectors listening, that’s what it looks like. It doesn’t always look like someone calling you and being like, I want to invite you to this thing. It’s you being recognized for being special in your way and your unique perspective, wisdom that you have to offer, your experience. Now, you get to decide whether those invitations are right for you. And especially as a 4/1, you’re going to say, that’s not my path or that is my path. That’s how the game works. So I just wanted to call that out since that was there staring me in the face and I can’t ignore those type of things, but with all of that said about the long game for podcasting, I want to call out that the long game doesn’t have to be this horrible uphill sludge of doing tech work and slaving over things.

It seems like you have picked your pieces that you want to grow, that you want to play the long game with. And this is something that I want listeners to take away. They think they need to do everything. And people are doing a lot of things not very well. They’re playing a short game with a lot of things, except like Instagram. So they’ll show up on Instagram and they’ll do their thing. They’re not doing all the other pieces around it that are helping to drive people to it and building real relationship. And I wanted to call out that you have played the long game with key pieces of your business.

I think, similarly to me in that way, where there are things that we said, these are my avenues. This is how I want to grow my business. And for you, you’ve been diligent and dedicated to relationship building and building real strong connections with people, getting into the right rooms, making connections with strategic partners and friends, and really building community within this entrepreneurial space.

That’s the top of the funnel. I want to call this out to people because they miss this stuff. They’re like, okay, I’m going to build my podcast. And it’s like, okay, now that you’ve built it and you get that running and this is becoming muscle memory and it’s something that you do. Now, how are we going to drive people to it? What’s your drug of choice as far as your top of funnel? Do you want to buy ads? Do you want to get into rooms? You can choose several, but you have to do them. People think that people are just going to magically find everything that we do. And there are ways that you can tune it so you can use SEO and things where people can find you, but you do have to be doing something on the other end.

And I think you’ve done that incredibly well with that long game. Cause I know you network with very high level people, but I know you also network at all levels. Have you seen the people who get into the room and we do the ask and give, you have an ask and then a give.

And the ask is like referrals, clients, that’s what they’re asking for. I need clients. And they think that like people who just met them, who have no idea what they do are going to just start referring. And that’s not building relationships. Have you had that experience in your networking past?

I suppose I’ve been witness to it. What’s interesting about that question is, I definitely have an air of like, don’t mess with me. I don’t know where it comes from. I’ve always had it. I used to get the whole, I thought you were a bitch until I got to know you vibe. I just feel compelled to share that because energy matches energy. I wouldn’t dare ask somebody that, it doesn’t happen to me that often. I think if a room has been set up properly, the asks come in a different way. And so specifically that question, no, but generally when people are talking about what they need, it is, they need more clients.

They need more visibility. And so to that, I’ll say you need to get yourself on more podcasts. You need to be promoting yourself just as much as you need to be asking for things. As far as projectors, if we have any of those listening, it is about getting an invitation, but you can’t be invited to things unless people know that you exist.

And so, when I first put my first course out, nobody knew I existed. They knew I was a hairdresser, but there was nobody to know me. I didn’t have a social media following. I didn’t have any sort of platform whatsoever. And after I sat and thought, I’m like, how can you create visibility while also adding value? How can you ask for something if you haven’t given anything yet? And so that’s where the skin in the game came for me was the time investment, the money investment using what network I did have to parlay that into another growth in network. Like, hey, thanks for coming on the show. Who else do you know that would make a good guest on the show?

And just really doubling down on all of that and always asking people, how can I serve or help you? And generally, the clients will come from that. And again, I came from a referral based business. So I learned early on to ask for the business from people that I was already working with, or who already invested in me.

And so if you want people to invest in you, if you want people to refer you business, what are you doing for them? So my question to you is, do you follow them? Do you re share their stuff? Are you doing things without being asked with no real intention behind it, other than to support people? If you are that type of human, I promise you that long game plan will pay you back huge in dividends.

People will think of you because you are always constantly commenting on their stories, or posting stuff about them without asking them for anything. This doesn’t mean you have to go buy their courses or programs or spend 10, 000 to be in their mastermind. Whilst that does help to get you noticed. You want to be sharing people’s stuff without being asked long before you have an ask.

So that’s building the runway with relationship capital. And I think it was something I didn’t know I already did, but working with people like Jeff Fenster, Lori Harder, Chris Harder, I learned that you have to put some skin in the game. And a lot of those things don’t take any money. They just take forethought and time.

And that’s why I stay around a lot of my mentors because I see them commenting on other people’s stuff. I see that’s how they get into their worlds. And luckily, I’ve had some really great mentors that have shared how long it actually has taken them to accomplish X, Y, or Z. And so for me, that gives me hope that it’s not taking me any longer than it’s supposed to.

That my journey is not going to look like anybody else’s. And anytime I try to quit on anything, I know who to go to talk to, who’s going to encourage me to not, looking for the proof to keep me in the game. But, as far as running a room and asking for something, my favorite recent quote that I’ve heard is, try to be as interested as possible versus being interesting.

Yeah. Being curious about people is the key. To really be able to look and see the people who are in front of you and get curious about, what do you do? And I feel like you’re built this way. I mean, you’re a four line. So typically four lines just know how to interact with people. And you have the channel of community. I mean, you were a hairdresser, you were a stylist. So people have probably fueled your life for a long time.

I have zero four lines in my design. None of them. I did not naturally know how to make lasting connections with people, because the five has a weird relationship with connection and how people see us, which I didn’t know until later in life. It helped me not take it so personally.

Yeah, we’ve talked about this.

That was interesting when you share that with me.

But one thing that really helped me was, I would always feel like I hadn’t done enough for people, which that’s a five thing, guilt. Five line guilt. I haven’t done enough. I haven’t fixed enough for you. But then just opening it up to people to say, how can I support you as well? What can I do to support you? I see you’re doing this. What can I do to support you? And that’s just a question that I’ve put in my mind. It’s not the natural thing.

I’m very head down working a lot. But when I connect with people, it’s like, let me make intentional connections. And the podcast has helped so much with this too, because it’s given me this avenue to focus on people. Like, let me showcase you.

Yeah.

And let me get super curious about you, and let me ask you great questions and expose you to my audience. And I think that’s an underrated piece that a lot of people don’t think of when they’re thinking about going into podcasting is it establishes you as an authority, but it’s also a really beautiful gift that you can give the people that you want to showcase. In the beginning, it can sometimes feel like I’m not in a place to lift somebody up.

I’m not big enough. And I definitely fell into that trap. I don’t have a big enough show to ask them to be on it. And then I had to get over that quick. So it trains you to get over your stuff quickly if you really are committed to the show.

Yeah.

But I got over that quick and then I realized, what a gift it is. Like, I had people that were way more established than me that were very excited when I invited them on my show. Or they asked to be on my show. And I was shocked. And it made me feel really good about myself.

Yeah.

And it made me feel like I was more established than maybe I was giving myself credit for. And then people would say I was a great interviewer and I asked great questions and it was like, oh, maybe I am good at this. The confidence that I got through this journey. Cause when you’re building a podcast, if you’re building a good one, I think you’re building a message.

And you may not know exactly what that message is on day one, the full thing. You should have an idea so that it’s actually producing something for you, but the act of showing up does so many things for you. If you’re showing up and you are putting out a podcast episode every week, I’ve been doing this for three and a half years now, and we do two episodes a week at this point.

We’ve been doing that for eight months, I think we’ve been at the two episodes. It’s a lot. I’m not going to lie to you. There’s a lot of work that goes into the show. A lot of thought, a lot of energy, but also at the end of the day, I’m very proud of this show. And I CTA this with some serious confidence when I’m like, listen to my show.

And it is the greatest lead magnet. Little soldiers out there working for me every day. Cause people are listening to episode 100 after they listen to episode 280. They’re finding all of these old things. I don’t have to create new content every day. When I feel like I need to have some downtime, I can take it off knowing that the podcast is going. I’m not completely absent. And I’ve built a loyal following on the podcast where my people come back and new people find me every week.

I’m curious if you’ve ever had this thought, but I always say that when you’re doing things in the physical world, it helps you believe that your dreams are possible. So if I have a vision for I make money in my sleep, which is something that we see quotes on Instagram about, we have that vision, we have that thing, but if you don’t actually have a way for people to pay you while you’re sleeping, then there’s a part of you in your brain that’s saying bullshit.

You can’t do that. I know that when I go to sleep, people are listening to my show because I see downloads change from the night before to when I wake up the next day. While I’m in the shower in the morning, people are listening to my message. They are deciding whether I am the person for them or not.

And I’m sure you have people like this who’ve listened to your show for a while and you don’t even know they exist, and then they come into your world and they say, I know I have to work with you. Or, I know you’re my person. And that comes from you being dedicated enough to show up and give them something to binge, and to listen to and go deep enough with you. Cause they’re not gonna know that from a 15 second reel with a great hook.

Unless you’re selling a course on how to do Instagram reels and grow to 200, 000 followers in a minute, unless you have that course and that’s your business, that’s not going to drive people to send you thousands of dollars, but a podcast will, because they can actually go deep with you.

Cause you’re going deep.

Yeah. I think one of the girls in my mastermind specifically said, I’ve been listening to your show for over eight months, and that’s what got her to join the mastermind. When I started talking about that, inviting people to check that out. And yeah, it was the consistency of her listening to me in her ear for eight months before she reached out and wanted to work with me.

And she’s actually the only one in my mastermind right now, currently there’s seven women, that is in the beauty industry. So it’s crazy because I know for a fact, had I not had so much skin in the game with my podcast, I don’t think any of these women would have joined my mastermind. Four of them have started podcasts.

Two of them worked with me individually before joining the mastermind. And then two of them went through my podcast course and started their podcasts. And then the first one who was a one on one client, we held her off for a while cause she wasn’t clear on her message yet. And we worked through that before she started the show.

Cause she wanted to be very, very intentional. Her topics are a little bit more sensitive and specific. And so with the right guidance, these four women have moved from corporate environments into the entrepreneurship space, but because they also wanted to have a podcast, that was the secret sauce of the extra layer that got them to work with me versus maybe another entrepreneurship coach or someone who could help them with their career.

So I know it to be true. And the other two, I think the credibility came from the podcast as well, because not only does the podcast speak for itself, like you say, with the downloads, but is it gives me more than enough content to speak about throughout the week to share the two episodes that I’m also doing throughout the week.

So on any given day, I don’t have to think about what I want to share on the show. I at least have those two juicy episodes that I can promote, re promote, talk about. So I listen to all my episodes now. I thoroughly enjoy listening to them. I get a lot out of them, especially if there’s a guest interview, because there’s always something I missed, or maybe I batch recorded it and it was a few weeks prior.

So I always listened to the show and then reshare the topics on the show on social media. I do little clips out of it over on Tik Tok and we’ve started to push stuff on Pinterest right now. Just driving traffic back over to the podcast, which has seemed to be working, but nothing moves traffic like you showing your face on social media and talking about stuff, or getting into the rooms and telling people about the podcast and getting them to connect with you.

But I’ll tell you, it’s really easy to get excited about sharing your episodes when you’re creating stuff that you’re proud of. So I’m excited to show up sometimes with no makeup on in the morning to talk about the latest Friday episode, or to talk about the Tuesday episode with a guest.

So it has become a lot more fun. And I think that part is something you need to experience by starting it. Because at first it doesn’t seem like fun. It seems maybe overwhelming and like a lot of work. And oh my gosh, I’d never used tech stuff before. I have no idea how to do all of this. But trust me, there are people to help you.

There are strategy coaches can help map out content ideas. And then there are plenty of people who are producing shows now at a very affordable price that you could probably figure out how to pay them. And or you could figure it out yourself. With YouTube university and Google, there are plenty of tutorials that you could watch and figure it out.

You don’t have to have a full blown production. You don’t have to have it up on a YouTube channel yet. You don’t even have to show your face if you don’t want. Most people listen to podcasts through audio, but if you can, go out of your way to hit the zoom record button, and or put your face on the camera.

It’s even more content you can pull from, from social media. And then little short clips that you can put on YouTube. If you don’t want to put the full episodes up there.

A thousand percent. And I think one thing I want to add to that whole thought is that there are so many strategies out there. You should be on Pinterest. You should be on YouTube. You should be on this. You should be on that. But what do you put on there? The podcast becomes this easy thing that as long as it’s tied to your core message, which is tied to your offers, which is tied to what you do, then the worst thing that’s going to happen is it’s not going to drive as much traffic as you want.

But if it gets one person who believes deeply in what you do, that can be a paying person. One anecdote is that my latest launch that we did in April. I think everybody that joined our program, we had 10 people join. Every single one of them, I believe, was a podcast listener. And we had some people that joined in there that have only been in our world for like two months, but they binged hard. And I have an $8,000 program. They didn’t buy a $22 guide from me. They jumped in and said, I want to spend a year with you. And it’s because of a strong connection that was built on this show. So you’re such an example of that. And I know that is what you do. So tell everybody, where can they learn more about what you do?

How can they stay in touch with you? How can they find out about the podcast services that you offer? Tell them where they can get all the things.

Yes. Well, as you heard, I’m on Instagram predominantly every day. @JessicaBurgio is my Instagram handle and Unscripted is the name of the podcast.

You have to type my name in with it because there are many other people that have that too. show title, which is another reason to not hold yourself back, whether it’s with the title or with anything, something’s already been done. So don’t even worry about it. You can fit into the game, but yeah, Instagram and the podcast.

And then we do have retreats that we run, which are called unscripted live retreats where they’re fully holistic style mastermind retreats where we come together, we drop into our feminine energy in the morning. Then we also do some masculine strategy business stuff in the evenings. They’re pretty transformational, I think.

I am an in person person. So if you were someone who’s hiding behind the idea that you’re not an in person person, I will convert you. I think I’m all about the inclusion. I love bringing people to the table. And I was once told, if I didn’t feel like I was getting the right invitations that I had to build my own table.

So perhaps you’re someone who has to build your own table too, but if you want to learn how to build the table, it’s over here. And yeah, I do love doing one on one strategy coaching for podcasters. It’s become a big passion of mine and it’s the thing I get asked most about. So I wanted to create some resources there.

I do have a resource that you guys can grab if you’re interested. Oh, maybe I should start a podcast. I don’t want to ask the girls any more questions. I just got to figure this out. Well, it’s called three reasons to start. And one reason not to, and I think you got the underlying theme.

I’ll give it away. The one reason you shouldn’t is if you can’t commit to being consistent, which anybody can build their consistency muscle. I promise you. Nicole and I are very busy. We’re both moms. We’re both second careers in our lives. We’re not 20 with no responsibility. And we’ve figured out how to have a podcast and make shit happen.

So if you are trying to build a business, and create credibility, and position yourself as an expert in any form, a podcast can be a really fun way to do it. And you’ve got two great resources here, me and her. We’d love to help you if there’s anything we can do, but yeah, come say hi on Instagram.

Yes. She’s @JessicaBurgio on Instagram. We’ll link all of it up in the show notes. So we’ve got you covered there. Don’t worry. You can find all of the things that Jess just called out there. And I highly recommend her in all ways. She’s just an amazing human. At the very least go connect with her and then jump in and grab those guides and the other things that she mentioned there.

Jess, thanks for being here. I’m so excited we finally got to do this.

I know me too. It’s wonderful.

I appreciate you, listener, for making it all the way to the end of this episode with us. We appreciate you. Thank you for being here with us. Thank you for sharing the show. Please share it on Instagram.

Tag us if you got value from this episode, if you loved what we shared. If you’re thinking about starting your own podcast, tell us all about it because we are champions and cheerleaders in that way. Everybody, I think, should have a podcast. Because that’s where your message can be worked out. So thank you so much for making it to the end with us.

We appreciate you. And remember in order to have an unshakeable business, you must first become an unshakeable human. So thanks for letting us help you become unshakeable with human design, everybody. We’ll see you next time.