Episode 430:

Nicoel Laino
Hello and welcome to Unshakable with Human Design, everybody. I am your host, Nicole Laino, and I am here with the Lovely and talented Ms. Tracy O’Malley

Nicoel Laino
We’re in person, which I am, like, so over the moon about. I’m so grateful for you being here, making time out of your day to come down here, not just hop on a zoom call. 

Tracy O’Malley
Way better. 

Nicoel Laino
And I have been wanting to have conversations on this show that I really feel like you were at the top of my list for people that I wanted to have these type of conversations with, which are like, real deal. Like, let’s get down to the nitty gritty, you and I. I don’t think either one of us minces words, but I know that you especially a straight shooter. And for those of you who don’t know Tracy, she’s the Enneagram queen. If you don’t know Tracy and you’re interested in the Enneagram, you need to go and get acquainted with her work in all of those ways. But you and I met, like, three years ago through Rebecca’s mastermind. You were course facilitating in there. You taught me about the Enneagram, but I wanted to bring you on here to have, like, a even deeper conversation. 

Nicoel Laino
You’ve been on the show, We’ve talked about Enneagram. I’ve been on yours. We talked about human design. And I talk about all of that, but so much more. Say hi to everybody. 

Tracy O’Malley
Hi, everyone. I’m honored to be here. And I remember when we met, we both use a mapping system to help people understand their transformation process. 

Nicoel Laino
Yeah. 

Tracy O’Malley
It’s kind of a roadmap. It’s a language that they can understand in so much that they have going on. I remember when we met, you were kind of like, how do I do this? Like, really do this? And you were watching me do that. Yeah. With the Enneagram. And I remember you feeling like I gave you permission to do that. And I felt that responsibility really deep. And I carry that message that you gave me very deeply. And also, the way that you talk about human design also intrigued me enough to build my understanding of human design, because. And I talk about back and forth, and it all tracks Enneagram, human design, astrology, any kind of like soul wisdom tools when applied with integrity and beautiful intent, like, the more the better, in my opinion. So I’m so honored to be here. 

Nicoel Laino
Thank you for being here. And when I first saw you speak and the way that you were teaching, I was like, that’s how I want to do it. And then I remember watching you the first time and I was like, she’s a 5 one. You told your story and you were talking about like how you were like the rock as a kid and just all of these things. And I was like, I bet she’s a 5:1. And then we met and I said I did human design. You were like, I’m a 5:1, Manny gen. And I was like, I knew it. 

Tracy O’Malley
Yeah. And I didn’t even know very much about what that meant. Yeah. At the time. And because of the way that your energy is, I was like, okay, I’m into how she’s going to explain this to me. And since that time, I have gone deep into all of the things. It’s beautiful. It’s such a beautiful tool. I like the Enneagram. It’s not complicated, but it is complex. 

Nicoel Laino
And it’s deep enough. 

Tracy O’Malley
So thank you for the work you do. 

Nicoel Laino
Even though I wanted to have this conversation for a long time, you posted something on Instagram maybe a week or so ago where you were like, I’m. 

Tracy O’Malley
Tired of the bullshit. 

Nicoel Laino
And I watched your video and I was like, this is my sign. We’re supposed to have this conversation. And I invited you to come here and you thankfully said yes. 

Tracy O’Malley
I mean, I admire and appreciate really good marketing. Like, I’m fascinated by it. The content creators obsessed. It’s beautiful. Like, you’re so creative and it’s just so fucking manipulative. And I can’t do it. I am a business strategist. I mean, big companies bring me in to help with strategy and culture and all these things. I’m no dummy and I understand the power of good marketing and I cannot do it in a manipulative way. I’m not here for clicks. I’m here for transformation. And you’re right, it doesn’t always get the clicks because people want the shiny object. They want the mirror that looks really good almost with the filter, with whatever things are done to it. And I’m just like standing here naked and raw and I’m ready to show you what that looks like and how beautiful that is. 

Tracy O’Malley
When you embrace it, you’re going to stop chasing the things and you’re really going to have this soul honoring process. And what sparked that video is, like, I run a really great business, and I’m proud of it, and it’s beautiful work. And I wake up every day super grateful, and I feel honored for the trust and responsibility I’m given to do what I do. I really do. And I also know that it’s not hitting the people that it needs to, because I’m not willing to do the clickbait bullshit, cutesy enneagram fluff. I’m fucking not. And so it’s like this. My strategy brain’s like, bitch, get your shit together. Like, you can manufacture this. You can manufacture this. And my enneagram, 8:51. Manny Jen’s like, Soul, we are not playing that game. And so it’s a tug of war in between that. 

Tracy O’Malley
And I know because I can see it. I can feel it. I can feel the energy that so many people are manufacturing something that isn’t true to their soul. And even though it’s good. Yeah, I can’t. That’s just one part I want to ask you. 

Nicoel Laino
So you said people aren’t getting this transformative work isn’t getting to people because it isn’t dressed up in the hook. 

Tracy O’Malley
Line that’s empathetic enough or the. The first three seconds that grabs their attention. You want to know what? Like that video that I posted that you loved. Thousands loved. And most engagement I’ve had on a video before I posted, Instagram said, don’t post this. It’s over three minutes now. Nobody will see it. 

Nicoel Laino
Where we. 

Tracy O’Malley
We won’t even show it to people who don’t already follow you. And within two hours, Instagram’s telling me I’m doing a great job because it’s getting engagement. And if that doesn’t tell you anything, I am a firm believer that when we honor our soul and our divine blueprints, the strategy fucking finds its way every time. 

Nicoel Laino
Let’s talk about that. So I feel that. And I think we’re speaking the same language here, too. So when you say the strategy figures itself out, this strategy finds itself. You work with some of the most successful people. You are a very successful person yourself. And you’ve been doing this a long time. You’re not like, this is my second year. I made it, you know, like my million dollars my first year. So out of the successful people that you work with, what is it that they are honoring in these spaces? They’re obviously working with you on transformation. A lot of them probably are not talking about that in their marketing because it’s not what they sell, I’m the. 

Tracy O’Malley
Best kept under the DL secret. Right? 

Nicoel Laino
So what is it that you see across the board with people? Because every strategy can work. They all work for different people. But how are you seeing transformation play a role in your business, in other people’s businesses? What is it that you’re like? I need more people to know about this. 

Tracy O’Malley
Yeah, it depends what you define as successful. First and foremost, I firmly believe that the ability to be present for every given moment that is in front of you where you are undistracted, not thinking too far ahead, not thinking to the past, whether it’s here on this podcast, with a client, with my children, with my lover. Like, the ability to be so present because, you know, like you’re honoring kind of your calling in the soul contract that is on you. Like, that is success. It isn’t the number in the bank account and I’ve made millions and that’s awesome and everything, but that also feels empty. When you are on the rabbit or the hamster wheel and you feel like you’re. You’re the puppet master and you’re the marionette in this whole game. That’s not success. 

Tracy O’Malley
So what I do see, like when I think about my most successful people, that not only that I work with, I mean, most people I work with become really good friends because they’re the real fucking deal. They’re willing to not just be successful on paper, but that soul success, that soul success is really the real thing. Like they’re willing to excavate every single day, go a little deeper, go a little deeper. And when things are happening, good, bad or indifferent, they get curious, kind and compassionate with themselves. That excites me. You know, the self fulfilling prophecy of annihilating yourself with shame and judgment and criticism. The grind, like that’s not successful to me, like that is the most unappealing thing. And I’m intense, as you can tell. I mean, I take vitamins aggressively. 

Tracy O’Malley
I blow my nose aggressively, which is probably why I have this nasal infection, you know what I mean? Like, I do everything aggressively except my soul. I aggressively attack it, but with kindness, gentleness, tenderness, curiosity. And I think that’s the number one attribute I see in the clients and friends that I have is, yes, they take strategy and their work ethic and character and credibility and trustworthiness, like all that’s really great. And also they honor their sole contract, no matter how messy, dark, moldy and terrifying it gets. It’s the purge. 

Nicoel Laino
Were you always so kind with yourself? In your soul discovery journey. Oh my gosh, like, not until 14 years ago, 13 years ago, honestly, like. 

Tracy O’Malley
I was that person. You know, if you spot it, you got it right? And I can spot it, cuz I’ve had it. I know it well. I wrote the fricking book on self annihilation and you know, but on the outside, I appeared to be like the most stoic, confident, bulletproof, can’t fuck with me. 

Nicoel Laino
And you couldn’t. 

Tracy O’Malley
Because I would fuck with myself more than you dock with me. Which I think that’s part of what people do when they’re beating themselves up. And I always say this, like, it’s one thing to like, be accountable and radically honest with yourself. The only time that actually works out is if you meet it with the compassion, kindness and curiosity. Because if you meet it with shame, criticism, and judgment, the cycle will continue. And actually it goes deeper and darker. Yep. And I realized 13 years ago that, wow, like, I can produce and on paper everything looks great. But the more this cycle continues, the deeper and darker I’m going and destruction is waiting for me. 

Tracy O’Malley
And I did not want the casualties that would come with that, which was not just my own life, but, you know, my kids, you know, were teenagers at the time. So it’s hard. 

Nicoel Laino
It is hard. And it’s so funny because when you say things, I’m just like, oh, I say that a different way. I say curiosity over criticism is always what I’m telling my clients. And I think like you said, if you spot it, you got it. I absolutely got into personal development work because I was like, I need to be fixed. I’m done with this bullshit. Like, I’m gonna make it. And it was so ambition. And I think it came from a wounded, decent place where you got probably. 

Tracy O’Malley
Recognition and praise for that I did. 

Nicoel Laino
Achieving was how I got over all of the other shortcomings and insecurities that I had is like, once I do this, I’ll be enough. Once I get better at this, I’ll be enough. Then they’ll see. And I so deeply wanted to be seen. And I see that with so many people who look to human design. And I’m curious if you see this with Enneagram. You know, they want the quick fix. They want, like, tell me the gate. That’s gonna be the answer. I’m gonna read it and it’s gonna change my life. And it’s like they’re seeds that we plant. And then you contemplate and you look with curiosity at these different aspects of you and you allow it to, like, unlock all the little doors and that have been welded shut holding the best parts of you in them. 

Nicoel Laino
And a lot of people, I find the greatest people that I work with that have success that are, like, when I say success, they’re growing, that they’re like, their life is getting better, their bank account’s getting bigger. 

Tracy O’Malley
Like, family life is good and their health is good and they’re happy and they’re integrity in every area of their life. Like, yes. You know that our mutual friend Rebecca, I’ve known her for 13 years, and this year I’ve been more proud of her. I’ve always been proud of her, but, like, she could be successful here, and I know shit’s falling apart over here, you know? And this year, like, I’ve never been more proud of her because she’s integrity in every area of her life, and she’s thriving in every area of her life. Parenting, marriage, health, business. Like, seriously, like, that’s the holy freaking grail. 

Nicoel Laino
And she’s not afraid to change things. 

Tracy O’Malley
Like, she’s shifting things all over. Like, and, you know, as when you were talking and I was listening, like, for you, it was the achievement. For me, it was the flex. Like, being the strong girl. 

Nicoel Laino
Right. 

Tracy O’Malley
As an enneagram a, that’s kind of what motivates me. And that was also reinforced early on in my life. So I think that beating myself up is like, well, I’m the toughest chick I know. If I can beat myself up and get back up, like, Rocky Balboa just punched me in the face, or Mike Tyson just punched me in the face, then I’m doing all right. So I think that was part of why I would beat myself up. Because if I’m so tough and I can take my beatings. 

Nicoel Laino
Yeah. 

Tracy O’Malley
Then I’m doing great. And I wasn’t. 

Nicoel Laino
When I beat myself up, it was because I really feared criticism and people not liking me. And I was not a cool girl. I was not popular. 

Tracy O’Malley
That’s a hard Road for a 5 one, isn’t it? 

Nicoel Laino
It is. 

Tracy O’Malley
I know it sucks sometimes, and I love it. 

Nicoel Laino
And I think one of the things that saved me about finding out I was a 51 was is, like, most of that’s not personal. And I took it so personally. And I think I beat myself up as a defense mechanism to. Well, if I hurt me, they can’t hurt me. Like, nobody’s going to be more critical of me than me, so I’m safe. 

Tracy O’Malley
Yeah. 

Nicoel Laino
But, yeah, we choose to put ourselves in these Places where we do have to grow. And we choose these paths because we want to be free of all of that. 

Tracy O’Malley
And also, like, for those that are listening, that are parents, like, if we’re not going to walk that talk, but we’re preaching something to our kids, like, you can do this and you should do this, but, like, you’re not doing it. Like, the best chance for them to do it is to watch you go first. And that was my breaking point. Like, I started to see some of my behaviors that we didn’t talk about while I was speaking a different language. I saw the unspoken stuff starting to play out, and I was like, I know where this heads for them, and I gotta know the way. Go the way and show the way. And who do I want them to learn that from? And that’s me. 

Tracy O’Malley
Like, I don’t want them seeking that out there with somebody who doesn’t mean they have their best interests at heart. So that’s when I decided to tear it all down, go to ground zero, be gentle and kind with myself. Meet myself at 40 years old for the first fucking time with compassionate empathy and kindness and tenderness and curiosity. And when I was curious and found things that weren’t so pretty, I was gentle with myself. And that shifted my entire lineage. The lineage I won’t even be alive to see because of that decision. So we’re not saying this to be cute. This is legacy shit. 

Nicoel Laino
And this is like, what you were saying, What I was catching there was like, to me, my son is the biggest mirror since the day he was born. Before he could talk. Oh, my God. 

Tracy O’Malley
Triggering and humbling thing I’ve ever done in my life. 

Nicoel Laino
Because of that, I’m so grateful that I found human design and I had found eft right around the time I had my son. And in this space with, what, five? Now he’s seven. He’s gonna be eight. I know. He’s getting so big. And he’s my little five one. He’s a projector, though. We’re different, but the same. But before he could even really talk, I remember very clearly there was this moment. We’re in his room, and I’m in his bed with him, and I’m reading him stories. And we’re doing our nighttime thing. We always do stories together. And I told him I loved him. And he looked at me because he’s like a little old man. He. 

Tracy O’Malley
He’s like an old soul. 

Nicoel Laino
Everybody says it. And he looked at me with his little old soul face, and he goes, you don’t love me. Daddy loves me. And I thought it was a joke, like kids. And I’m like, but he’s so serious. And there was something so serious in that moment. And I was like, I love you. You don’t feel like mommy loves you. And he was like, you don’t love me. Daddy loves me. And there was a part of me, I was like, is he fucking with me? Is he old enough to be fucking with me right now? And then, so I put him to bed and then I leave the room, I say goodnight to him. And then there was a part of me that was angry because there was this moment, you know, like the mom. It’s like I do everything. 

Nicoel Laino
My husband is a very hands on father. Like I’m not calling him out for that. But it was like, I do breakfast, I do this, it’s story time with me. 

Tracy O’Malley
It’s do all these things. 

Nicoel Laino
And then I sat there and my training like kicked in of what I was doing at the time and the work that I was doing, personal work, which was just your world is your mirror. Can you look at every interaction that you have and just see it as a reflection for yourself to see if there’s something it’s reflecting in you? And I tapped on how I didn’t love myself. 

Tracy O’Malley
They feel it. 

Nicoel Laino
And that was like one of the biggest breakthrough paths I had ever been on was that moment. Then I tapped and I did all of my work and I’m going through all that stuff and released so much like from my father and from all of these things and just things that I’d forgotten about, I didn’t even know they were there. Some truths that I didn’t know. Little me was still breaking over and our whole relationship changed. So I changed us. Our kids are our mirrors, but it’s also our businesses our mirrors. 

Tracy O’Malley
I’m so glad you brought that up because I have this intuitive hit that we need to talk about. Like this business, bestie friendships. That is the other thing that I, I see a lot of in this space that I’ve been in for 14 years. 

Nicoel Laino
I’m listening. 

Tracy O’Malley
The opportunistic kind of we should collaborate and let’s besties. And you know, how many of my clients and work, how much work I do over business divorces and friendship divorces. 

Nicoel Laino
Let’s talk. 

Tracy O’Malley
This is a big one, you guys. And I know your audience needs to hear. This is not the shit anyone is talking about because we have to maintain composure in this online space. And like if I talk about this, I’m going to have the Trolls come and hate me if they’re in that person’s camp, in this person’s camp. And I’ve been alliances like survivor, digital version in the entrepreneurial space, and I’ve been casualty in that. And I took the high road, and I could see some of the patterns. And this being an entrepreneur, especially an entrepreneur woman, I would say it is a unique kind of subculture, and it can feel like you’re a mom. I’m a mom. 

Tracy O’Malley
Like, most of the moms that, back when my kids were in school would have no freaking idea what it would mean to live a day in my life. And, you know, not that I’m better or what, that they just wouldn’t understand. I’m not gonna sit around and talk about, like, you know, my Stanley Cup. I’m talking about business strategy, you know what I mean? And just. Just marketing and ideas and visionary shit, you know, And I respect all people. And so when we get into this entrepreneur space and we go from these events and get in the room and all the things that, you know, we’re told to do, like, okay, it’s what you do in these rooms that is really important, you guys. And I see it. I’ve sat at the back of these rooms. 

Tracy O’Malley
I’m gonna fly in the wall, and I see like, oh, they’re going in. And you cling on to some of these relationships like your life depends on it, and it gets enmeshed and codependent, and then it goes sideways. Think about, like, a bad boyfriend you had back in, you know, high school or, you know, your first heartbreak. A lot of this shit is going to end up like that or worse. Because women, you know, at least when women entrepreneurship, it gets vicious. And this is the shit nobody talks about. And this is, like, some of the work I do that nobody knows about. 

Nicoel Laino
I’m a 5 one, and I’m curious what your experience is with this. So 5 ones are known to have textbook. At least 5 ones are known to have greater direct influence over strangers, more so than the people who are close to them. Doesn’t mean we don’t have influence. Like, I have influence over my son and stuff like that. But the. Our strongest influence is things like this podcast. When people see us on a stage, it’s like, that’s our greatest magnetism. That’s our, like, moment when they’re like. They’re like, ooh, I need more of that. And you know what can happen? I’ve had a sisterhood wound forever, because when they get close, then it can get Weird. Where I find it difficult in these circles, though, because I’m not a transactional person. 

Nicoel Laino
And I think that is one of the things that has been so hard for me is I want real relationships or I don’t need it. Then I’ve said this like, I was an actor. I perform on stage, and I love that. I don’t want to perform in my life. And that has been challenging because the performers, they got a lot of attention. 

Tracy O’Malley
They have receipts that it works. 

Nicoel Laino
They do, right? 

Tracy O’Malley
And also, I also have been around long enough. I can see the friend group shift. I can see, like, oh, I see why they’re friends with them. That’s a good opportunity for them. And then they get the opportunity and then they’re moving on. And guess what? They have a new bestie on their arm. Like, I see it all the time. And, like, it looks good on the gram and they look cute and they’re beautiful. And I understand it, but it is lonely. It is lonely. And I have accepted that five one part of me that was very revealing. I just, like, you know, I’m an 8 on enneagram, too. So, like, I have that kind of magnetism, intensity anyway. And also understanding the 5 one part of me that I can’t do fake. I won’t do fake. 

Tracy O’Malley
And some people want the fake because it looks good. Until, like I said, the common thing I see in people that are truly successful and integrity in their whole life is even though I am a mirror that they don’t always want to look at, they know it’s coming from a place of love and service and education now. Like, don’t get me wrong, there were people in my life in recent years, like, they’re drawn to it. And then I can feel like, oh, no, can’t do it. And they pull away. And I’ve had some people that were in my life a long time ago that as I’ve really stepped into this because I always had that mirror projection. Yeah, the five part, the problem solver thing, where people love that. And it wasn’t always met. It wasn’t always accompanied by the empathy. 

Tracy O’Malley
And so I could understand why people would leave. Like, I got that. I would chalk that up. Dahl, I’m just an asshole. Like an eight or, you know, that’s just. I’m a common denominator. And so the more I understood the 5:1, I was like, no, this is the calling. And because I have so much work and continue to do the work in the excavation process and go deeper, I have more compassionate Empathy than prob and no judgment than probably anyone I know. And I found this, that made some people way more uncomfortable because they couldn’t receive that. Here’s your truth and I love you and I don’t judge you. And I’m here in the trench with you. Like the more authentic and compassionate and empathetic I am, the more people have left. 

Tracy O’Malley
And that is the problem is the receiving people have a hard time receiving that they are worthy of love and compassion and empathy and they’d rather just project that. The mirror is the problem and I receive that and that is my calling on my life. And I won’t do this in my personal relationships. It’s this way, like I’m cookie cutter the same in this podcast chair with my children, with my love, with my friends, with my clients. Like you’re going to get this empathy all the time and it’s just a matter of if you are believing you’re worthy to receive it. 

Nicoel Laino
Yeah. And the not taking it personally part is really hard. And I think it’s one of those things like we’re not here to be liked necessarily. 

Tracy O’Malley
Well, in the leadership that I do, especially with the corporate clients that I have, I’m like, your job is to have respect and trust. Liked is last on the list because they can like you, but if they don’t trust or respect you, it doesn’t matter. And I’ve always operated with the trust and respect first. I know there’s many people probably you listening. You’ve, you see me, you’re like, oh, but you trust me and you might respect me and there’s not a room you’ll hear my name drop that the respect, trust and credibility isn’t there. I will take that over being liked any day. And it’s still painful because I’m still freaking human and so are you. 

Nicoel Laino
Yeah, we have to be the villain in some people’s story. That’s sometimes the role that we are at least playing for a time. And I’ve had to be that sometimes. It’s our role always. And you know, I always ask myself the question of is there something I reflect? Like if something is coming back at me, somebody has a, an outsized reaction to something or turns. You know, I look at myself and I say, is there something that I need to adjust? Is there something here that I did where my intentions are? Am I meeting this with integrity? 

Tracy O’Malley
And that’s always my kind of check in point too. Is my intent nothing but good, beautiful, pure. Am I integrity in taking this on and there are times I’m like, no, bitch, you’re out of integrity. And so I have to stop it. 

Nicoel Laino
Did I live up to it? Did I live up to the standard that I set for myself here? Or is there something I need to adjust? And if I land on like, no, I did. I kept my side of the street clean, then I say, okay, this is a projection. And it doesn’t mean that it still doesn’t hurt or it doesn’t like, you know, I think about sometimes that stuff way more than I should or would like to. Like, where I’m like, I have to stop thinking about this. Like, I have to let it go. And I think this is one of the things that I think is what’s so powerful about these systems that we use because they give you a framework to reflect. 

Nicoel Laino
They give you a way to understand how people are going to interact with you and for you to start to understand yourself on a deep level. I’m interested to know with enneagram, with the transformational work that you do. I think one of the things that I’m always trying to get through to people is that transformation isn’t something that, like a project that you work on and yeah, like, okay, done next. Like, you know, I learned funnels. Like, it’s not that. How is it that you approach that with people as far as, like, just that because it’s a. To me, it’s a moment to moment thing always. 

Nicoel Laino
And I find that the more I rise and the more I see other people who are doing this and doing well in all aspects of their lives, they’re the ones that are treating transformation as, and self reflection as an all the time, every day, every minute thing with compassion, with curiosity, not with like beating yourself up every minute. I should have done better, you know, but just being like, oh, I fell short there. Let me look at that. What could I have learned from this? How do you guide people through that journey? I mean, I’m guessing the people that come to you probably are on it. 

Tracy O’Malley
I’m usually after the have had tried to take the fluffier, lighter, easier, softer way. Like in recovery. One of the first things I read in recovery was we want to believe there’s an easier, softer way, but there’s not. And by the time people come to me, they kind of know, like, all right, buckle up because they’re ready, you know, And I appreciate that. Like, you know, I’m the master’s program. Most people want to entertain and have fun at recess in kindergarten or elementary school. Like, and I get that those were so much easier at the time. If you want a PhD, then you’re coming to me, right? And so, like, I kind of established that we’re not fucking around. You ready? Like, yeah. But the how I explain it is like, you know, we have our home base, right? 

Nicoel Laino
But we do venture out into the world. 

Tracy O’Malley
And I love. I mean, I’m probably the most introverted. Like, lock me in a house with animals the rest of my life, I’d be totally fine. I don’t love to venture out much because I am often misunderstood. And all the things that, like, even though I know it’s the calling of my life, I don’t really want to experience that all the time. Like, I do want to have some, like, peaceful joy. And I usually find that in solitude. 

Nicoel Laino
A lot of the time. 

Tracy O’Malley
But we do venture out of home base. Now, what I love about the Enneagram in human design, it gives you all these different paths you can go. And if you happen to take a wrong turn or a turn that now you’re lost in a situation, these beautiful tools can give you guides on how to get back on a path where it feels good or it’s good for you, right? Because there are some paths that are scary that are actually good for you. But how do you navigate the off roading that happened over there? Or like, holy shit, I’m about to go off the cliff. How do I take a hard left without blowing up my life, right? And that’s. But we are way more than just a mani, Jen. I’m way more than an enneagram 8 and you’re a 7, right? 

Tracy O’Malley
Like, we’re way more than that. We venture out of home base, but we have to know how to treat our home base well. So that when we do venture out and we do experience some off roading or detours or things we don’t, like, block and freeze or just like panic and fly off the edge, right? The real edge is knowing how to navigate all the twists and turns that life will always give you. And unless you want to be locked into a closet the rest of your life, you better know how to drive. You better know how to drive this thing. And there are days I do it better than others. And you know, even what you were just saying, like, this is constant. And I have a very small of, like, people. Like, when I’m feeling panicky, there’s about three people I’ll call. 

Tracy O’Malley
And I’m living with somebody now and dating in my 50s, and it’s been amazing. And he’s perfect for me. And also, like, there have been some challenges the last two weeks where, I mean, he’s not afraid to poke me now. Where the first five years I was like, all right, you didn’t really challenge me much. And I respected that because I’m a good communicator. He doesn’t have to challenge me much. But there have been some things lately where he’s going there with me. He’s not afraid. And I love it. And also, like, I’m like, you know, like, you really are gonna fuck around and find out now. And thank God for the beauty and the practice and the pause through these maps and systems. Like, okay, if I go this way, this does not. 

Tracy O’Malley
I’m going off the cliff and we can’t get a tow truck big enough to pull me outta that. Or like, even if I go away, that maybe wasn’t great. Like, I can course correct that fast. And I have never been more proud of myself and him and us in the way that these hard moments don’t become catastrophes or grudge holding or withholding of love or pettiness. It’s like real adults having hard, honest, loving conversations is not enabling. That’s why I’m so frustrated, because I want him to enable me and he’s not. And he’s calling me on it like I would him. So, you know, that’s how when we’re using the system, because I think when they come to you or me or they’re interested in human design or any brand they want, give me all the answers right now. Yes. 

Tracy O’Malley
And it’s like, well, you’ve got to keep venturing out for the magic to really happen. And you got to put the reps in to build the muscles so that when you are venturing out, it does feel more effortless. So that when I am triggered the way I was last night with him, instead of it lasting an hour, it lasted one minute. One minute. But that takes practice. And the reps, you know, the reps build the confidence, the reps build the muscle. It’s like, we all want a JLO booty, don’t we? Come on. We can all read her workout. We can all watch a YouTube video of the workout and we can sit there and you know, our potato chips and watch it. We’re not going to get a JLO booty. We can know till we’re blue in the face. 

Tracy O’Malley
But information doesn’t equal the transformation. It’s the integration, it’s the reps, it’s the willingness to be messy. 

Nicoel Laino
It’s reconditioning yourself or the best of you rather than the worst of you. 

Tracy O’Malley
I woke up this morning thinking how 15 years ago that conversation would have gone. I might be a Dateline episode. Don’t get me wrong, I won’t hesitate to make it a Dateline episode if it’s for the greatest good and integrity. But that would have not been the case last night. And like, just how proud I am of myself that I walk my talk. I use the tool that I am masterful PhD level in every single day. I have other tools that help back me up when I don’t want to say, fuck it, you know, throw my tools out. I was like, my human lives like, yo, bitch, come back over here, Enneagram. 

Nicoel Laino
Come back over here. 

Tracy O’Malley
Let’s help the sister out. You know what I mean? And I’m just really proud of the reps I put in daily, constantly, not just in teaching, but in myself. I walk that top well. 

Nicoel Laino
And that’s what I think is you brought up that it would have taken an hour in the past and it was one minute. And that I think, because, I mean, a lot of entrepreneurs listen to this show, but I think that, you know, and there’s others as well, but usually achievers. And I think you have a similar kind of tribe. So there is this sense of, you know, what’s going to make me better, faster, stronger, you know, jump higher. What are these tools? And they look to things like Enneagram. They look to things like human design, you know, what’s the thing? And usually it’s a collection of things, but that’s one of the things that I think is an unsung hero of this work is the compound effect on your life in your ability to get back in the game and be yourself. 

Nicoel Laino
Where something might have taken you out of your work, your relationship as the being the best parent that you want, that you desire to be that. Now you can get back to that in one minute or in 10 minutes or something. You can go breathe for five minutes and come back and you’re like, I’ve really moved through that. Not I packed it away like a sandwich I’m going to put in my purse for later. And then it gets moldy and festers and it’s disgusting or blowing up. 

Tracy O’Malley
And then just like, I’m sorry I reacted that way. Yeah, no, it’s not that either. It’s beautiful. But you see it on the outside and I get this a lot. It’s like you make it look so easy, like you’re so good at this. You’re so calm, like, oh, my gosh, your kids are so lucky that you’re their mom. And I’m like, you have not been present for the thousands and thousands of hours and reps I put in always to make sure that when shit’s hitting the fan, I can pivot in a moment with. Not out of trauma response, but out of really grounded, honest, soulful, intuitive response to it. Like, that takes practice. You know, we see sports like we watched every hated Tom Brady because, like, he’s just the golden boy. That man worked harder to get where he was than anyone. 

Tracy O’Malley
And he continues to even lost his. 

Nicoel Laino
Marriage because his whole life was. 

Tracy O’Malley
He was an integrity in every area of his life. However, when it came to being masterful at what he does, there is no one I have seen that works harder. Michael Jordan is right up there, too. But, you know, we see the glory, but we don’t know the story. We don’t see the reps. We don’t see the grueling parts to make it happen. And to use these tools instead of coming to us and be like, fix me. There’s nothing wrong with you. You know, we have to recondition you. We have to get you in training camp and practice. We have to take you through. We have to school you before you are the PhD level of understanding how to navigate yourself. 

Nicoel Laino
And I think that this is the work that I think people realize it’s valuable personal development, you know, and they kind of group it into that. And I look at it more at self mastery. Yes. And I don’t think anyone’s ever mastered something that they didn’t deeply understand. I don’t think that, like Tom Brady, great athlete, understands the game of football, and that’s what makes him a master of his craft. But also, nobody masters anything overnight. And there’s this idea that, like, this is like a side thing and the strategy needs to be like the front and center where all of our money, all of our energy, all of our resources go. And for me, some people have different paths, but I think that it’s. There are a million strategies out there that could work, but there’s only one you. 

Nicoel Laino
And that’s the universal thing that if you aren’t mastering yourself and you don’t make that a priority, the strategic problems you’re having in your business or in your life are not going to be solved with more strategy. 

Tracy O’Malley
Which takes me full circle back to the video you referenced is I am so masterful with myself. I really am. And also I would love things to move a little faster and swifter. And of course, like, I know being masterful at understanding myself and people, like, I have a masterful people understanderer. And I was trying to do things that weren’t honoring that because I’m human. I see it working for other people. And I also know they’re full of shit. So why the fuck would I ever do that? Like, hello. And again I meet myself with compassion and it’s like, of course you are. Because you have been misunderstood most of your life and that’s part of the calling. And it’s okay. You are not meant to do it like other people. Whenever. Let’s get the receipts, shall we? 

Tracy O’Malley
In any thing that you’ve ever been successful at, Tracy, whether it’s professional, in relationships, in friendships, as a mother, as a friend, all of it. When were you most successful? When I was uniquely me. And I honored that. I didn’t judge it and I didn’t try to manufacture it into something else business. I’ve made millions being me. Anytime I waver off that for some strategy, I mean, I can make it work by right to talk about soul sucking energy. And at 53, I can’t get away with that. Hormonally, my body humbles me, like, bitch, what you doing? You don’t do it like that. But it’s lonely. And there’s no, like, I don’t teach that. I can’t. But I can teach you to be you. And I can teach you to honor you every fucking time. 

Nicoel Laino
I have a question for you. So on that note of authenticity being you, do you ever have people who through that work decide that the things that they are doing are that they do need to burn it down or they do need to make a hard pivot, or they do need to, because what they’ve built is out of integrity. Do you see that? 

Tracy O’Malley
I would say it’s 90% of my work. And I had two CEOs just call me this week, men, I need to disrupt my life. You have to have the courage to disrupt your life. You know, when I got sober, I had the courage to disrupt every area of my life. To lose anything and everyone in my life except for my kids. And, you know, there was a lot of wreckage. I wasn’t masterful of myself yet. I was just really learning myself. And it was the first time, you know, since then that I’ve been really gentle with myself. And so helping people through that process and especially if they’ve got an image to maintain, like how do you disrupt your life, your livelihood, your relationships, your health, your soul without as much, you know, disruption isn’t going to please everyone. 

Tracy O’Malley
You know, I’ve helped couples rekindle. I’ve helped couples consciously get divorced. I’ve been divorced. It is not fun. Even when it’s the right thing to do. It’s very hard. And I would say 90% of the work I do is like, the holy shit moment, the 911 call. Like, if I don’t understand how to disrupt this, it’s going to do it for me. And it will be convenient, fun, inexpensive, cheap or without some hell to pay. Because many of you are white knuckling at you, like, waiting for the shoe to drop. They’re like, oh, man, you know? And I joke, but not really. Like, God will keep whacking you upside the head till you get the lesson. 

Nicoel Laino
The knock just gets louder when you. 

Tracy O’Malley
Don’T answer the door, and harder. 

Nicoel Laino
And then they kick down the door. 

Tracy O’Malley
And it’s never convenient, fun, inexpensive, or without humility. And so I really encourage you. Like, it’s scary. It’s scary to get in the trench with somebody like me or you, because we are the truth tellers. But it’s coming from so much love and your best interest at heart, again, hard for people to receive that. Well. 

Nicoel Laino
I think that a lot of people look to these tools to be like, this is going to help me get what I want. And then. And it. And it might. I was going to say that you probably don’t even know what you want right now. That’s just something. It’s probably your conditioning that’s causing you to put that marker out there where you’ve decided that’s the thing that’s going to make everything better. And now you’re looking for some pathway because you know that you’re in the way of it. Okay, it’s human design. It’s the enneagram. It’s this thing, you know, once I figure this out, that’s going to tell me how to get there. I would say, like, you know, your purpose isn’t a destination. It’s an unfolding of a path that we don’t really know. 

Nicoel Laino
I hope that human design holds a north star for you so that you feel permission as those themes show up or as those things start to feel right, that you go, I feel better doing this scary thing because this was the thing she talked to me about in my reading, or this is the thing we talked about on my call where I don’t feel like this is the craziest thing I’ve ever heard. But too many people, I think, treat these things like some sort of tool that will get them what they want. 

Nicoel Laino
And what I find is once we start peeling back the layers of what’s not really them and what they’ve been hiding behind or they’ve been too scared to look at, you know, the dark door that’s been welded shut, and then we crack that thing open and they’re like, oh, shit, I can’t look at anything else the same anymore. And it’s the most freeing thing. But, you know, sometimes you need to walk through the fire to get to that freedom. And I think that’s. It’s obviously confronting, but I think it’s very scary for people. And I was just. I wanted to mention that on the show because I don’t think people talk about that. It’s just like, yeah, it’s like, this is the thing that’s going to get you here. 

Nicoel Laino
Just back to that theme of, like, the marketing that’s out there and we gotta eat. And we know that, but we also. This is the system that kind of got created of hooks and inflated numbers and, you know, Chanel bags and just this, like, fantasy life that’s largely manufactured. 

Tracy O’Malley
You know, I’ve sat on the deathbed with the two most influential men of my life, and both were very successful in life on paper. They were both very charismatic and the life of the party. And both of them wish they had more time to have these real, honest, soulful conversations instead of the applause and instead of the things. And me, too, I know that, yes, I have impacted thousands of people, almost millions, probably, like, honestly, in 14 years. And although I love that and, like, if God took me tomorrow, like, I know, like, I’m proud of the work I’ve done here and why I’ve done it all were for the people that I love and who matter most. 

Tracy O’Malley
And they’ve seen me walk into a room and be treated like I’m some famous celebrity before, and they have seen me take them places and have experiences that we couldn’t have 20 years ago. And although they appreciate that, what they appreciate the most is that the person that they. That all these people love and respect is the same one that’s raising them. There’s no difference in that person. And they’re most proud that I am so in integrity that’s what makes them proud. Not the bank account. It’s not the beautiful home that we have. It’s not, you know, the things I’ve been able to do with. And for them, I have become a model of what a roadmap looks like. And even though they have different roadmaps than me, they have watched me navigate mine with courage and bravery. 

Tracy O’Malley
And I’ve tripped up and I get back up and I take ownership with love and compassion and empathy. And I’ve modeled that for them. So now them at 27, 28, it is so beautiful to see they do it. That, my friends, that success. And that’s what these tools do for you when you honor what they are. Instead of saying, help me take the fast pass to here. 

Nicoel Laino
And there is no fast pass. 

Tracy O’Malley
I mean, you could accelerate transformation. Sure, if you put the reps in. 

Nicoel Laino
It’s not because you picked the right system that worked fastest. And everybody starts at a different place. You know, your wounds are going to be different than my wounds. Maybe they’re not as deep. I don’t know. Maybe your dad was way nicer than mine. Like lots of things that people come into the world with, we all start the starting gate is not the same for all of us, and the race isn’t the same. And I think that’s something that was standing out to me when I watched your post about the bullshit that’s out there is that we’re not talking about how the race is different. We’re not talking about how it’s your race that you’re running. And that’s the most important thing is that you focus on that. 

Nicoel Laino
Not tunnel vision on your goal necessarily, but the goal of mastering yourself is the one tool, the one thing that will pay dividends in every aspect of your life. 

Tracy O’Malley
I love that. And this would be something really beautiful because, like, this is real time, like immediate, real time happening for me that I was presented with an opportunity that got my soul excited and lit up in a way that hasn’t been in 14 years. And it’s something a little different. Like, obviously my work is. I’m obsessed with my work. I will do this work till I die obsessed. And this other thing also presented itself. And I hadn’t been that excited in a long time and giddy and empowered and confident in a way. I was like, oh, Ben, she’s that, you know, not the flex, not the bravado. This is going to be amazing. And also, like, my stinking thinking is like, ooh, that could be controversial. People are going to talk shit about that. People are gonna have something to say about that. 

Tracy O’Malley
This is not my first rodeo. That when I honor the calling, I do get shit talk. And I do it anyway. And those same shit talkers then call me later or they keep shit talking me. And, you know, it’s really scary, but I’ve mastered understanding the way my map works. And if I chose not to do this, I’m going down a path that doesn’t feel good for me anymore. But you have to be awake enough with yourself to know when it. It’s presented to you. Because I could tell myself all sorts of stories about that. And it’s just fascinating, like, how this whole thing of life, like, it just fascinates me, every twist and turn. You know, when I was a little girl, I used to read the atlas. I was nine years old. I was always fascinated with maps. 

Tracy O’Malley
And I grew up in the 70s, y’. All. So this is for Google Maps and things like that and, you know, apps on your phone. We didn’t even have. We have phone connected to the wall, had no caller id. So I used to lay on the floor and read the yellow Rand McNally map. And my dad used to like, trace, what are you doing? Why are you reading Iowa? And I was always fascinated. Like, I was always curious. Like, I grew up in Chicago, but, like, I know there’s more out there and how I get from here to there and what verb takes me there. And there’s all these different ways to get to Iowa or to Vegas or to California or to sunny Arizona, which is where I knew I would end up, ironically. 

Tracy O’Malley
And how the hell do I get out of this place? You know, I know there are times that you might be looking at yourself in the mirrors, like, how did I get here and how do I get out of here? And when you use these tools, like a constant flowing atlas or navigation system, like, the world is a beautiful place, even the off roading, even the detours, even Iowa, no offense, Iowa, but you’re kind of boring to drive through, you know, but there is always something to be gained in the journey. And there’s all these different ways. 

Nicoel Laino
There’s a quote I’m gonna butcher right now, but we’ll get the gist. I was watching, actually the show foundation on Apple. It was a series of books that they made into a television series. And jury’s still out. It’s okay. It’s not like, oh, my God, you have to watch it, but if you watched it, you probably wouldn’t be mad about it. She said one of the characters said, the answer is not always the destination. Sometimes the act of seeking is what enlightens. And I did not say it nearly as eloquently as they said it on there. But I heard that and I was like, that’s it. Because I always tell people with the human design chart, I’m like, if you’re looking for answers in the chart, you’re going to be disappointed. If you’re looking for answers in the chart, you’re going to be frustrated. 

Nicoel Laino
You’re always going to be like, let me look to my chart and figure this out. And that’s the energy that causes everything to take longer. But if you look for insight in the chart, you’ll find that’s where life becomes this beautiful unfolding of wonder, of like, oh, wow, that’s what that means. And not because I figured out the definition, but I figured out that’s what that means for me in this moment. And it now had this impact on me. And that’s where I feel so fortunate. Like, walking through life and doing this work where I get to help people do that. It’s just. That’s where it’s super fun. Little sparks going off all over, just being like, here’s the light instead of the darkness that you’ve been focusing on. And to be able to feel that, I think is the greatest gift. 

Tracy O’Malley
That was such a beautiful way to put that. I loved that. And also, like, for a lot of us, you know, for a lot of you listening, going down a path that hasn’t been taught, told, or modeled for you, that you’ve never seen, having somebody with the flashlight or being that lighthouse to say, yes, we do need to go down that scary, unknown road that we’ve never seen before, and nobody before you has done it either. And this is the calling on your life. And here I am to shine the way so that you can still be scared. Sometimes we’re human might stomp your feet a little bit, but that is the road for you. It’s so cool to see. It’s my favorite moment. Even when it’s like, disrupting their life or ending a relationship and they know. 

Nicoel Laino
They have to disrupt it’s not something that we’re like, oh, you’ve got to burn it all down. They’re like, what do you mean? 

Tracy O’Malley
I recommend not doing that. I recommend doing the hard stuff so you don’t have to, like I did. 

Nicoel Laino
I find a lot of times that it isn’t as much disruption as some people think it will be. They’re going into something with some sort of preconceived notion. And then through the work, they start to go, oh, it was actually more of a shift than A sledgehammer, I would say, like, you don’t have to take a sledgehammer to your life. It’s usually more subtle tweaks that we’re making, sometimes big changes. But to have the presence to be in that moment when you’re not sure and it feels like everything is falling apart to go, okay, how can I go into this and not feel like I just need to blow everything up? Because right now feels so uncomfortable. 

Tracy O’Malley
So good, girl. 

Nicoel Laino
But you have a certification. You’re teaching people how to do what you do. 

Tracy O’Malley
Yeah. This is a big deal. I know. I’ve, like, come into it kicking and screaming and resisted it for at least five years. I understand that because of what we’ve talked about. 

Nicoel Laino
Because if I’m going to teach people. 

Tracy O’Malley
How to do this, I don’t want to put my name or methodology with it on anybody that won’t use it integrity or with beautiful intent. I haven’t done it yet. Honestly, it’s the only reason I hadn’t done it. And also, I can’t be out here playing God. So I know that it will be here to make an impact. I know the way that the methodology that I use to teach it is way different than anything. And I’m only one person. And as my impact and influence has become more broad, especially in this space and in the work that I am so honored to do, like, I need more people that have learned it the way that I do it so it can make more of an impact, you know, And I’m okay with that. So first cohort is starting in a few weeks. 

Tracy O’Malley
I don’t know when this is airing. September 3rd. If it’s before then. Hey, come on in. If it’s after that, I’m running it again and again. Level one is like the foundations, the information, the teachings, the map, the Atlas. And levels 2 and 3 is like facilitation of real life work. 

Nicoel Laino
I’m excited you’re doing it. When I saw that you were coming out with it, I know the work that you must have put in to making this something that you’d put your name behind, you know, and if they’re not learning it from you, they’re learning it from somebody else. 

Tracy O’Malley
And they’re going to kindergarten. 

Nicoel Laino
Exactly. So I’m very excited. Where can they learn more? 

Tracy O’Malley
I go to traceyomalley.com it’s all over my thing. Find me on Instagram, Tracyomalley. Listen to the Enneagram Edge, which also has over 400 episodes. Love it. And I, too, have a reignited relationship with this work and these kind of conversations. So thank you for having me on. Such an honor to sit in this space and do this work alongside you too. 

Nicoel Laino
Thank you for being here. I’m so happy that you lent your voice, your wisdom and your perspective. Just so happy that we got to do this. Thank you so much for being here. I love you. 

Tracy O’Malley
Love you too. 

Nicoel Laino
And thank you for making it all the way to the end of this episode with us. We appreciate you. And remember, in order to have an unshakeable business, you must first become an unshakable human. So thanks for letting us help you become unshakable with human design. We’ll see you next time.