Episode 431:


Nicole Laino
Hello and welcome to Unshakeable with Human Design, everyone. I’m your host, Nicole Laino, and I’m here with a very special guest. I am so excited. A friend of mine connected me with this particular guest and I immediately said yes to have her on because I think she brings such an incredible perspective that we have not had on the show here before. I’m excited for the conversation that we’re going to have because she is One of the OGs of human design, Dr. Eleanor Haspel Portner. She’s passionately synthesizes areas of esoteric wisdom and scientific discovery. 

Nicole Laino
She has published numerous bestselling books and helped thousands of individuals, couples and groups synthesize life experience in practical ways for living healthy, prosperous and creative lives. In her work with Noble Energy Map, she shows you how to manifest your highest potential to live a life you love. And each week, she and her husband, Dr. Marvin, host a free webinar on how to manifest your dream life. She was also a friend and colleague and business partner of RA Uruhu, who is obviously the founder transmitter of Human Design. So I’m very excited to have you on. Dr. Eleanor, thank you for being here. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
And thank you for inviting me. I’m glad to be here. 

Nicole Laino
So that was a very professional bio, but do you want to tell everybody just a little bit about you? And I know there’s so much more to your background than that. Did you want to introduce yourself to the audience and tell them what we didn’t capture in that bio? 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
Well, from childhood I was always psychic and I knew that I needed to be a Jungian analyst and I needed to have a PhD in order to be credible. So I went to the University of Chicago and without realizing why, I knew I needed to be integrative and. And my PhD from there was in what it was at that point called the Department of Human Development, and it focused on sociology, anthropology, psychology, and biology, the four worlds. Then after my PhD, I decided I needed to be helping people make their life better. It wasn’t enough to be intellectual. What really mattered to me was what tools could I give people to help them live a happy life. And part of it was that I had two young children and when they would have a tantrum or act out. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
Even with all my background, I didn’t know what to do with them. So I studied communication. You know, my background academically is filled with studying this and studying that. A couple of days ago, my husband, I gave him an article to read that I had written on the 32nd path of intelligence in the tree of life and what it means because I teach it. And he looked at me and he said, you know, went all these different places. We went to England to study with this person, and Taos to study with this person. And you studied this and this. And it’s all come together now. And so when I saw the mandala of synthesis, as I call it, the human design wheel in the mountain astrologer in 1996, I knew what it was. I was already trained as a Jungian analyst. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
I understood about the tree of life and archetypes, and I was already an astrologer. So all of the fields that Ra Hu said were integrated into design were fields that I had already studied. And Ra and I and Marvin became friends. And then I pulled away from him because he wasn’t the most honest person in the world. And then I was asked in 1999 to host him because he was destitute. His son Jiva had been born preemie, and he had split with Zeno and Chatano, and he needed help getting back to Ibiza. So Marvin and I talked it over, and we agreed that we would help him, even though we knew his limitations. And within a week of coming to our home again, he said, would you validate design scientifically? 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
And I joke about it, but I said, no, I don’t want to do this. My husband said, yes, we’ll do it. So we did it. So here we are so many years later. And my work expanded human design because of the science. And then I realized that it was really integrating what I knew of the tree of life and the four worlds as a map of self actualization. And so my work is the validation of a process. And I often say my real work is the four worlds and how they integrate in consciousness, not charts. Charts are the validation of what we’re looking at, but they’re not the whole picture. 

Nicole Laino
Okay, let’s talk about that. So first of all, can you talk to me a little bit about what validating something like human design looks like? Like, what is the process that you go through? Because you are a clinical psychologist, you’re a social scientist. Like, you are trained in the world of science and statistics. So how are you taking something like what does that process look like of saying, like, I’m going to validate this? Is it just a matter of taking samples and observing people? Is it, how are you? What. What did it look like for you? 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
So in 1999, we spent several weeks with RA recording, quote, everything the Voice told him, and then working with Eric Memert, who did the original new Sunware neutrino program, which has, by the way, the only other. I own the copyright to the body graph. And Eric’s program uses the accurate body graph. None of the other programs do because they didn’t have the copyright. The body graph, as it was given to ra The Voice spent five days with him making sure the measurements of the body graph were accurate because they’re sacred geometry. And so the first order of business was to code everything. So the process was. And I have a book on the science, which I’ve just released, and I talk about how I did it. So what I did was I took five samples of 5,000 each. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
And I used people who’d had heart attacks versus people who didn’t. AIDS patients. So heart attacks, AIDS, general population, fibromyalgia and addiction. Five groups. And I had matched samples. So when you’re doing astrology research, and of course, Human design and Noble Energy Maps, which is my system, which expanded human design, works with the astrological data that gets coded and translated into a body graph. So I had to match samples astrologically, which means they needed to be matched for latitude and longitude for people who the same ages. So if I had, let’s say, 10 people who had heart attacks, I would need 10 people who didn’t, all born on the same date in the same place, to differentiate them. And so I had a group of 30,000 matched people, so 15,000. 15,000. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
And then Eric coded everything so everything had a numerical binary on, off, and then I put them into the statistical well. I exported from neutrinos to Jigsaw, which is an astrology research program, and coded everything in Jigsaw and then ran the data in the Statistical Package for the Social Sciences using multivariate analysis of variance, factor analyses, chi squares, Z tests, any rotational factor analysis, every possible way I could run the data. And I looked at just Typold. And I am pleased to say that instead of four types, which RA was teaching, five types held as independent of each other. So we have five types. Manifesting generator, manifestor, projector, reflector, those held in the body graph. Then I checked circuitry, I checked centers, I checked channels and gates. Did they hold Together, did they group together? And certain things held. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
At that point, I already had. Ra gave me what he called the dream design. It wasn’t a dream. It is a dream design. But he didn’t have the sleep design of a mammal, so I needed that calculation. So I also got the emotional angelic matrix. When I was teaching early on, I said to Ra, so, Ra, there’s another matrix that gives us insight, that gives us creative intelligence, that gives us downloadable information. He said, oh, yeah. The voice told me there was. I said, oh, I got it. So I taught the first class on the Dreamwave in November of 1999. Rod didn’t know what it was. And then as were walking to my car, he said to me, okay, now I can do the keynotes, because I know what it is now. So we worked together on the dream. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
He didn’t know anything about sleep architecture. And so I don’t want to go into too much detail. A lot of it’s in my books. But as I ran the data, there were a lot of things in human design that were inaccurate. Like, profile is an artifact of the math. It shows that the body graph itself has structure, but it’s a mathematical structure because there were no differentials in any of the populations. So if you have a variable that is stable across every population, you know, it might be a variable, but it doesn’t differentiate person X from person Y. You follow? 

Nicole Laino
Yeah, I do. So talk to me a little bit about that. So when in your work, do you just remove profile as a. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
No, I use the keywords. Okay. Because the keywords show process. So in my work, what happened was I immediately knew that there was a difference in somebody. I was sitting with two ladies in my yard, and Ra was in my living room. And one of them was a generator who became a reflector when she slept and dreamed. The other one was a generator, was a reflector who became. Or a projector who became a generator when she slept. And so I looked at the one who. Who became a generator when she slept. And I said, so you go to sleep at night, and you’re not sure what you want to do, and you wake up in the morning and you go, oh, now I know. And she said, how did you know? 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
And I looked at the other one, and I said, and you go to sleep thinking, you know, and you wake up thinking, what was I thinking? And she said, how did you know? And I went in and I said, tara, Rada, if type changes when we sleep, it’s important. And I kept saying to Rob because in human design, I’m a manifester. And I kept saying to him, I’m not a manifester. I wait and I wait till I know, because I know where is that? And so when I looked at my sleep chart, not as a dream rave, but as a transit chart, I become a generator at night. So I began working with that. And I was trained already as an astrologer pretty extensively. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
So what I use is eight charts that trace from three months before birth, a week before birth, two days before birth, an hour and a half before birth, an hour and a half after birth, two days after birth, prenatal and postnatal, astrologers do. And it shows the developmental critical periods in early baby development. When a baby is three months old and reaches for an object then considered no longer a neonate, they’re considered a baby and they reach for objects and they have choice. At that point, 99% of the population are manifesting generators. So what I use instead of profile is the keywords for the incarnation cross that goes along with that chart. And you see process, you see how the transiting planets impact a baby’s consciousness, predisposing them to sensitive ways of being. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
And so I encourage my students to use the keywords like the incarnation cross of the Sphinx, self, knowledge or contagion or the vessel of Love. In fact, I was just doing an illustration showing that we go from the vessel of Love from the one, the first hexagram, and then we move from the vessel of Love to the quadrants that rod divided the wheel into, and you have the cross of the Sphinx. So we’re always moving around the wheel toward increasing consciousness. And when you look at the development over a three month period, you can begin to see that. So going back to the statistics, Ra said people who had open heart centers were more prone to heart attacks than people who had a define did not hold up. Not true. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
What was most fascinating to me recently was I had done a factor analysis which looks at the different centers to see which centers have common threads within them that would show that they lump together as helpful in defining something about somebody. The sacral, the root and the splenic center hold together. The heart and the solar plexus hold together. The ajna and the crown hold together. And the sacral to the self, to the throat hole together. Four factors, four worlds in the tree of life. And they clump together in terms of the paths of intelligence on the tree of Life, which I teach. So the key in design is that if you look at the four worlds and the different matrices for the worlds. You begin to see that only the mental waking world and the emotional, the physical, biological world, have a solar plexus. 

Nicole Laino
So let’s take a moment to just go through, first of all, the four worlds and what that is. Because I know that the people listening probably aren’t familiar with this. And if you could connect them to the four worlds that you’re seeing, it come through the centers, I think that provides a grounding point for people that they can start to visualize at least what this is. Because is it the spiritual world is connected. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
There is a mental waking world. That’s the world we’re sitting in now. We’re in our head, we’re using language, we’re dressed according to our culture. It’s the world we’re socialized into. It’s not the world of who we are. It’s the world of reality. And the human design body map focuses primarily on the mental waking world. The spiritual archetypal world is the world we move into, that is our spirit. It’s when we sleep and dream, we become one with the cosmos. We lose our consciousness, we lose our cortex. But in dreaming, in REM sleep, which eye motions back and forth, we’re dreaming. There is carryover between one world and the mental waking world. That’s why people don’t remember their dreams well, because they only have fragments that pass through. The physical biological world is the world of our body. And it mostly functions unconsciously. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
And emotional reactions occur in the physical biological world. That’s why we have a lie detector test. It measures the galvanic skin response. It’s measuring physical biological activation of emotion before we’re even conscious of it. So that’s very important because in the tree of life, the 27th path of intelligence that goes between the solar plexus and the splenic center, the intuitive in human design, the splenic center, where we have intuition and immune system and a sense about other people and what’s good for us. If we are emotionally reactive, we’re not intuitively tuned in the same way. And so the tree of life is telling us that emotional reactivity must be turned into compassion and love in order to be higher consciousness. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
And so that’s the emotional angelic world that takes out the solar plexus and is very intuitive and is pushing us to the creative intelligence of the Ajna and the Crown. So we are here to transform emotionally into higher consciousness beings. And so we have the mental waking world, the spiritual archetypal. World, the physical biological world and the emotional angelic world, the world of transformation. And those four worlds integrate at three months of age. And that is who we live. That’s who we are. 

Nicole Laino
So can I ask you then, so when you’re, if you’re reading somebody, if somebody comes to you to work with you using the system that you use, which you still do, incorporate some of human design into your work, you just do it differently, right? You’ve kind of made your own process with this. What are you working with? Are you working with a 3 month date? Are you like, okay, you were born on. I’m born on September 8th. So are you saying that I’m actually December 8th? Is that the chart that you’re running for? 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
That’s when you became whole. That’s when you began to have volition. You began to show preferences. Reaching for an object, smiling at some people and avoiding other people. The gastrointestinal system at that point is developed. So what I read when I’m reading eight charts. I’m not reading one chart. I’m reading where things turn on and off. So for example, in my design, I kept saying to Ra, but Ra, I don’t take action. Even though I’m a manifester. I wait. Why do I wait? Well, I wait because I get the 515 in my lunar chart. And so I wait until I know because I know. And then I take action. And when I know because I know, everything falls into place. Because it’s coming from a connected place in me, not an intellectual place in me. 

Nicole Laino
Yeah, I think, and this is something that I run into with a lot of clients. I was going to say you’ve done an awful lot that it seems like you are a very self actualized person. It just might not happen instantly. Like just with all that you’ve done and all that you’ve studied and all that you’ve created. Do you not resonate with being a manifester at all? 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
Not at all. 

Nicole Laino
Really. See, I would look at you and I’d be like, oh, I see that because it seems like you’re unstoppable in the direction that you’re going in. But I guess it’s. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
But it’s always coming from spirit. 

Nicole Laino
Okay. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
It’s never coming from something I should do because it’s the thing that people do. I do what I do because it resonates with me spiritually. 

Nicole Laino
This is so interesting because it’s the interpretations of these things I always see. Because I guess we look at the other types, and we look at the other, you know, other people, and I think there’s always some romanticizing about the other types that we feel like it would be easier, you know, if I was only. That. That would. My life would be perfect. But I. I always think of manifestors as having this sort of direct channel to, like, the divine. Like, they get struck by lightning with something where it feels like something that’s not of this world moves them, that they are sort of. I don’t like the word possessed because there’s such a negative connotation to it. But that. But that spirit moves them. 

Nicole Laino
And so I guess it’s like that was always the way that when I’ve witnessed Clarity clients and when I’ve, you know, talked with a lot of manifestors, I feel like they are moved by that. And so I guess it’s just that the interpretations of things and the way that we interact with this knowledge, that. That would actually be my interpretation of a manifesto. But I understand that. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
Well, see, I. Now, with design, I was invisible. I mean, I’ve been teaching and working with design since 1999, since actually 1996. And nothing I did became public. I mean, it was out there. I had websites, et cetera. And then In October of 22, the voice said to me, you know what you have? You know what it is? Your layout is the figure eights. Because I’m a Tai chi gong teacher, and that’s on my book, one of my books, the figure 8. And the voice said, you know what you have? You know what it is? Go public. I went, okay. And I waited. And then a week later, it said, go public. So I went public, and I just shared with my Tai chi group. Well, I do this work, and blah, blah, blah. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
15 people wanted readings, and it just like, oh, my God. It was the voice speaking to me and saying, now is the time to put it out there. And I waited that whole time, you know, doing my little books. And mostly, I mean, I was president of the Hypnosis Society. I was writing books on astrology and reiki. And doing, you know, my life and doing design never occurred to me as being my primary thing, because it wasn’t. But my real work is for children, and it’s for parents of children to know that they need to tune into the spirit of their child. Not the mind, not the body, the spirit. 

Nicole Laino
And how do they do that? How do you tune into the spirit of your child? 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
A lot of children are so energy sensitive, and you can see in the Eight charts where people pick up energy, where they’re an empath, where they’re not an empath, where they. For example, if I see somebody who has the 3410, I know they march to their own trump. You’re not going to input if they don’t want it input. That’s important for parents to know, no matter which level. It may not be the mental world. It may be that they’re spiritually aligned, or it may be that they’re physically aligned. So how to talk to a child will depend on how they come together in their different worlds. Mm. 

Nicole Laino
So what I encounter a lot with people, like, even with the chart as it exists, as, you know, everybody listening to the show knows it, they still find it confusing. So how do they take something when you say eight charts and, you know, bringing together the four worlds and the four matrixes, how does somebody who is interested in this not be overwhelmed by it? How does somebody. Because even I’m like, what would I be looking for in there? Am I comparing the charts and seeing what changes and running them at those points? 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
When I teach a group of people the tree of life and human design, I teach them how the paths of intelligence in the tree of life evolve consciousness. And it’s a map of self actualization. So if you understand how the worlds come together, you can begin to see where channels connect. 

Nicole Laino
Can you give me an example that might help illustrate the point? 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
Someone might have the five in the mental world, and they might have the 15 in the spiritual world. So they have the whole channel in the integration of who they are. But if you’re just reading the mental world, you may not see that. You may miss that. When they know they can take action. 

Nicole Laino
Okay. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
Or if you see somebody who is, like myself, a manifester in the mental world, and then I become very strongly defined as a generator through the 52. 9. That gives me a very strong focus and a sense of inner peace. So I always wait until I know. And if I was advising a parent whose child had a configuration where it changes over time, I would say to them, encourage your child to wait a week before making a decision. Because spiritually, they get defined spiritually after a week, not a immediately. So the timing of how somebody functions depends on the configuration during that first three months of life. 

Nicole Laino
If I were to pull up my sleep chart right now, would it be the sleep chart that I can pull up, or is your chart that you’re looking at run at different times and you’re looking at it? 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
I don’t know what program you use? I use, my son designed me a program so I use the astrology as well as the hexagrams because I think that if you don’t use the astrology you lose so much information about the nuance of the gate and the channel. So if you were to pull up your dream design, you’d probably get a 15 gate matrix turned on its side. And the way I do it is I use the 64 gate matrix because I want to see the transits impacting that developmental time frame for a baby, even though it may not be in that dream world. And then a week after birth you get the postnatal lunar chart which shows very often the timing of an aligned decision for a person. 

Nicole Laino
So this is something that our listeners, they can’t really pull this for themselves. They couldn’t really look at this. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
Or they could go to Noble energy maps website nobleenergymaps.com and there is a free report, very preliminary, that will print out all their charts and then there’s a premium report that prints out the five primary channels that get activated. And on my website there’s a four world assessment that goes over the worlds and is a questionnaire using clean language questions to assess how somebody sees themselves in all four worlds. Because the real work is recognizing that we’re multi consciousness beings, we’re not one note. 

Nicole Laino
No, that’s very true. And I think that’s because my take on human design and this is something that I get into with my clients and the people who join programs and other, you know, offers with me where I don’t treat this as dogmatic because I think that there’s, I can’t prove it. You know, there are things like, you know, Ross said a lot of stuff like you said, you know, people with an open heart center are more likely to have heart attacks. I have people ask me about that stuff all the time. Is it true that if Sixes don’t come off the roof when they’re at their, after their chiron that they get terribly sick? And I’m like, I have no data. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
On that and that would not be true. 

Nicole Laino
Yeah, I’m like, my instinct says no, but I can’t prove it either way. What I will say I can prove it. Okay, you can prove it. And I think that’s valid. And what I do say to them is that I’m like, I do have Sixes come to me around their chiron return where they feel like they must share something or something must change or there is a shift in their life that they cannot ignore. That I will say that I see almost across the board with people is that they feel like they must do something, and that something. Something is very different for each person. It’s individual. I’m like, but get sick. I have absolutely no proof, data, or supporting evidence of that. So I don’t say any of those things. And I’m very careful about what I will. 

Nicole Laino
People talking about, you know, how they can link certain aspects of design to autism and being on the spectrum. And I’m like, I have absolutely no data on that. In fact, I’ve looked people up who have autistic kids, and there’s always something different I’ve never seen. Like, oh, there’s a direct correlation. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
Well, there’s Ry said, people, when they want to conceive, if they have the 59. Six, they’re more likely to conceive. Not true. I tested it. Not true. 

Nicole Laino
I have the 59. 6. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
You know, there’s so much that Ra said, and in the books that I wrote with Ra, what I did was I preserved all of the source material, and then I did a commentary on what held and what did not hold. Because so much of it. I mean, the body map as an integrated synthesis is brilliant, but the way R.A. taught it was dumbed down to the fourth grade level. His words. And he was a great storyteller. He was. Ra was in our home for weeks at a time. We were in his home for weeks at a time because were friends. When he was moving back to Ibiza, he showed up at our doorstep with Loci and said, we lost Loci’s visa. I need to stay with you until we can go downtown and get it fixed. So he arrived unannounced. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
I mean, that’s how close were. But ultimately, he wasn’t interested in the science. In truth, he was interested in a legacy for his family, which I understand completely. And we owe him a great debt of gratitude for what he did give us. And it’s time now to look at the truth and look at the tree of Life, because we’re living at a very. I mean, the aspect astrologically between Pluto, Neptune, and Uranus, that has not happened since 306 BC is shifting the consciousness of the world. And we’re living in biblical times. So being able to navigate that consciousness is requiring that all of us master emotional reactivity. 

Nicole Laino
Yes. And I think that’s kind of the headline, right? Is that, you know, I’ve been saying to people quite a bit lately, you know, with social media, I don’t know if you’re on social media much. I try not to be on it all too often anymore because it does feel like. Because. Cause what we’re talking about, managing emotional reactivity, is about actually feeling the feelings that you have so that you are not stuffing them down and then constantly being triggered where you’re a very reactive person. Is that. Are we in agreement there with that? 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
Well, it’s being in touch with what you feel. 

Nicole Laino
Right. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
But then transforming it to compassion and love intuitively. 

Nicole Laino
And what I see on social media is a bunch of unfelt feelings, a bunch of closeted feelings, so to speak, and them being weaponized by people intentionally posting triggering things and telling people who to blame for that emotion and where they should put it, rather than sitting and holding it themselves, feeling it so that they can transcend and transmute it into love, compassion, and understanding and feeling and opening up. They contract and throw it out at somebody else. And. And I feel like that’s the terrible thing that social media has given us is this high. It’s rewarding that reactive, that reactivity, that triggering and giving you new places to put it. And I think it’s terribly destructive. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
Well, the other aspect of it is that people think it’s impersonal and it’s not. And, you know, something on social media can trigger someone who’s vulnerable in a way that can really be harmful to them and lead them astray. 

Nicole Laino
It’s a very influenced world that we’re living in, and that’s the value that I see in human design. I have never purported that I could prove any of this. I have never said that, you know, oh, this is. You know, I’m happy that you’ve done the work, and I’m excited to read your books and learn more about the studies that you’ve done and the work that you’ve put out. But for me, it’s a tool for introspection, so that we can know ourselves, trust ourselves, so we’re not looking to the outside world for all of the answers, and that we can rise in our level of consciousness and expand our compassion for each other. My husband, when I first found design, he said to me, which I always joke is sort of a backhanded compliment, he said, he’s like, human design has softened you. 

Nicole Laino
And I think what. What he meant there, and I was like, thanks. I think what he meant was I just became far less judgmental of other people. And I just. I don’t think I was a terrible person, but I started to look at people with greater compassion because I had an appreciation for how they were different rather than thinking that everybody should be like me or that everybody should feel like me, that it was this study of how people could be and, oh, they could be like that. And I understand this, and I understand why this person feels different when I’m near them and where those things can come from. And that’s, I think, whatever people believe, because it is a belief system. I think you do have to believe in a lot of this. But like all belief systems, they can’t be dogmatic. 

Nicole Laino
It can’t be something that you are just following fundamentalistly to the letter, because that’s control, which is supposed to be the opposite of what this is. It should be a system to help you find your own emotional and personal freedom and to love other people for their differences as well. And through our compassion, we can expand others because they don’t feel judged. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
Well said. Very well said. 

Nicole Laino
Where can everybody stay in touch with you? Where can they learn more about. I know you mentioned your website. Please tell us again. And then where can they. All of your books are on Amazon. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
All of my books are on Amazon and Ingram. So they’re in Barnes and Noble on Apple Books. 

Nicole Laino
Which book would you tell everybody to start with? Which is the book that you’re like? This is the one you should buy first because you have so many. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
Well, the Living from Soul. Talks about the four worlds. And it’s like a workbook. 

Nicole Laino
Okay. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
And it doesn’t talk about design. I. Until the last chapter. I think the Science of Human Design would be good reading for anyone who’s a human design person. And then. Well, I mean, go on Amazon. I have all kinds of books there. There’s the ones I wrote with RA Human Design and Health Triple Design Matrix. There’s a Cosmic guidance one where I took the four worlds and did an evergreen statement in each world for every day of the year. 

Nicole Laino
Oh, amazing. I actually, I saw you speaking with somebody else about that one. So we will link all of this up in the show notes. But where can they stay in touch with you and learn more besides the books? 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
Noble Energy Wellness is my website and My email is EHP for my initials. And@noblesciences.com Noble, my first cat, who died when he was 22, is my logo. And the calculations I got for my eight charts came from twin kittens. 

Nicole Laino
Oh, amazing. I love that. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
So I owe Noble and the cats a lot of my life. 

Nicole Laino
Absolutely. Thank you for sharing that story with us and thank you for being here and sharing your wisdom and your experience. I really appreciate you coming on the show today. 

Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner
Thank you so much Nicole. I appreciate you having me and being so open. 

Nicole Laino
Thank you and thank you for making it all the way to the end of this episode with us. We appreciate you and remember in order to have an unshakable business you must first become an unshakable human. So thanks for letting us help you become unshakable with human design. We will see you next time.