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Episode #84 Being Super Bold with Fred Joyal

We’ve probably all been in situations where we felt not enough, or like we didn’t belong. This week’s guest helps teach his clients how to overcome that hesitance and become super bold. Fred Joyal is an author, speaker, entrepreneur, and business advisor. Along with a lucrative career in advertising and marketing, he co-founded the most successful dentist referral service in the country, 1-800-DENTIST, which, over 30 years, generated over $1 billion in revenue. We are so excited to have him on the podcast this week sharing his insights from his career on how to be super bold and go after your dreams.


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Nicole Laino 

Hi, and welcome to the limitless entrepreneur podcast. I’m your host, Nicole Laino. And I am super excited for the conversation I’m going to have today with a special guest. He hasn’t been on the show before. And but we’re going to talk about a topic that is near and dear to my heart. Definitely at the heart of this show. We’re going to talk about being bold, and stepping into your boldness, living life from that place, and how it can change you change your business, change everything in your life. And the person that I have on the show today is kind of uniquely qualified to talk about this. He literally wrote the book on being super bold. His name is Fred Joyal, he’s an author, a speaker and entrepreneur and a business advisor. Along with his lucrative career in advertising and marketing, he co founded a little something you might have heard of called one 800 dentist, which has generated over $1 billion in revenue. He’s written two books on marketing. He’s also dabbled in stand up comedy and improv comedy acted in bad movies and excellent TV commercials. And he’s visited over 44 countries around the world. Now many of those things that we also just realized in the pre interview where we were chatting that we he lives in a building I used to live in in LA so we’ve got this like, acting kind of bold, sort of sort of vibe going on and, and similar hometowns and he was just in my hometown yesterday. So I’m feeling very connected to you, Fred. I’m excited to have you here. Welcome to the show.

Fred Joyal 

Thank you, Nicole, I feel this one degree of separation emerging here. So I

Nicole Laino 

know. I know. We’re here. We’re there. Yeah. Did I miss anything in that intro? Would you like to introduce yourself to the audience with anything else?

Fred Joyal 

That’s really it. I’m, my life is now focused on putting the book out super bold, and, and creating boldness in as many people as possible, I’m really trying to make it a movement where, and make the world a bolder place and make people able to really chase their dreams and have fulfilling satisfying lives.

Nicole Laino 

What does it mean to you to be suit as because your book is called super bold, not just bold, super bold. What’s the difference between bold and super bold,

super bold is that when you are in a situation where you are not confident, because most of us have some level of confidence, you know, we’re comfortable with our friends, we’re comfortable at work, we there’s we have a comfort zone of confidence. But then things happen. And many times there are more important things. And we can’t suddenly we hesitate. We clam up, we don’t step up. We we miss opportunities that could be great opportunities could be tipping points in our lives. When you’re super bold, you can summon your boldness, in any situation, no matter how uncomfortable it even makes you. And the book is about training yourself, gradually building your boldness muscle, so that you can do this. And you also have a method for doing a systematic way of saying, I know what to do here. I know what the voices in my head are saying, I don’t have to listen, I know what to do.

Nicole Laino 

So I love that. But what I want to, I want to get I want to get real specific about this for a second, where has this come up in your life, you’ve done a lot. And there’s definitely even as I read off your bio, you can hear where you took some moves, you made some moves that not everybody would make. Not everybody feels that they could do them, although anyone really can do anything if they put their mind to it. But how have you implemented being super bold in your life? Where has it? Where has it shown up for you? And how has it challenged you?

So it challenged me a lot in early life because I was very shy growing up and under confident missed all sorts of opportunities. And it just kept happening into adulthood into my 20s. And I would see bold people and I would say why? Why are they like this? Like why? Why don’t they experienced rejection like I do? Why do they they try and fail and laugh at off and all and all of these things and walk into a room and meet anybody and ask women to dance or talk to complete strangers wherever they go. And everything sort of bounces off them and doors swing open for them. And I realized I want that I want I don’t want to change into somebody else. I want to bring the full meat out because there were times when it would happen. And so what really the big transformation for me was when I got into the advertising business, and I had found my tribe, I had found something I could really do for a living that really works I didn’t, because I hadn’t found that at all, I had no vision for who I wanted to be or what I wanted to do. And I found that the bolder I was in my creativity and in my presenting of my material in my creative pitches, the better it would go, the more they would be drawn in, because they’re there, we had creative people who would write great stuff, great, great stuff, but they couldn’t pitch it to the client, they would be so under confident about it that the client would go, what else do you have, right, and I would come in there, guns blazing. Right. And what happens is when you do this, and what happened for me is, as I started to push through my discomfort zone, and do something and speak up or step up, or just be enthusiastic and committed, great things would happen. And it created this positive feedback loop. So I kept forcing myself and widening my comfort zone just by trying more and more stuff. I mean, I couldn’t dial the phone. And I first first job I had, where somebody tried to give me a job cold calling, I couldn’t dial the phone a single time. It was it was over in five minutes. I was back on the machine shop floor after that. And then I started a business with based on a phone number, that’s the ultimate irony is my most of my wealth is based on a phone number. And we had to beat the streets, we had to go find dentists to participate in this program that nobody had ever heard of. Nobody had ever executed anything like it before. And, and we had to invent the business, it was a constant process of being uncomfortable, and just trying stuff. But a lot of it was emulating bold people. And then and then listening to the voice in my head and realizing what nonsense was going on what how wrong, the voice in my head was, most of the time, they’re not going to be interested in you you’re not you know, belong in this room, whatever that you know, all of this stuff that we were masters at telling her that we’re going to people are going to laugh at you, you’re going to embarrass yourself, you’re gonna fail all of this stuff. And once you power through it, stop listening, which is what bald people learn to do. They hear the voice, they just don’t listen. Right? The voice stays there, because it’s so deep in our programming, but you just go Yeah, and that’s not really true. So I’m just gonna act.

Nicole Laino 

And now you talk about this. What I like about this is you talk about it as a skill because I think that people have missed the the misconception is that you’re either born that way or you’re not, you’re a really competent person, you’re really bold person. And true. Some people get shot out of the womb that way. They you know, but I really look at that more. No one told them that they couldn’t be that way. I think we most of us come out very much ourselves. And then we’re taught to hide it, we’re taught that it’s not safe to be that we were not celebrated for it. Maybe we were punished for being too much. So you talked about it, it sounds like you’re really talking about this as a skill that is like you think you said a muscle that you build, and that you strengthen. How does somebody go about doing that? How do you how do you build the skill? Like being bold? Is it just a matter of doing it? Is it just a matter of saying that’s a bold thing? I’m gonna go do it? Or is there more to it than that?

Fred Joyal 

Well, it’s I created this method based on how I got here, I created what what I termed the pride method. And it’s an acronym for the steps that you take to do boldness exercises in your life. And then also apply it when you’re coming into certain situations. So it’s, it’s an I’ll give you the acronym, it’s preparation, relaxing, insight, dosage, and everyday action. And, obviously, I break it down in detail in the book. But in a lot of situations, people think why don’t have to be prepared. You know, we we prepare to get a driver’s license, we prepare to take, you know, entrance exams and all of that stuff. But we don’t prepare for social situations, we think we should somehow be able to naturally walk up and talk to people. And we do all sorts of things wrong because of it. And all we don’t know what to say. So we don’t say anything. Well, we all we put ourselves up to the situation and then don’t say anything, right pair what you’re going to say prepare if you’re going to ask for a raise, prepare it. You know, if you’re going to do a 3040 minute PowerPoint to your team, prepare it. If you’re going to try to raise $2 million for your business, you better know that backwards and forwards and deliver it with passion and confidence and enthusiasm. They’re investing in you. So preparation is key, even if it’s just meeting somebody, you know, introducing yourself to somebody in Starbucks, what are you going to say? So and you know, so come up with a compliment, come up with, you know, pick something that they’re wearing, and say that looks really great on you. Just that little bit. And obviously, it expands to everything. Relaxing is the second step. A lot of people don’t have any idea how to easily relax themselves, you as an actor know that there are very simple techniques, physical techniques, where you shake off the excess stress and energy, and you breathe. And it you people don’t, you know, when they’re anxious, they stopped breathing, you know, like, no oxygen is somehow helpful in that situation. But that’s what happens. That’s the autonomic nervous system in fight or flight, right? It’s doing that stuff. And that’s why our memory gets bad. Because you don’t need cognition and memory, when the saber toothed Tiger is stalking you on the African planet.

Nicole Laino 

To survive at the moment, we just need to get out of here.

Fred Joyal 

Yeah, so they’re specific techniques to relax yourself, then it’s been key insights that bold people know, which is 99% of the time, nothing bad happens, unless I labeled it that way. And also, people are not thinking about you anywhere near as much as you think they are. They’re thinking about themselves, they’ll think about you for a few seconds and go back to their favorite topic. So we think people remember stuff we said 20 years ago, that was so embarrassing, it’s like they have no, they’re busy thinking about the times they embarrass themselves. That’s what they’re worried about. So bold people worry about a very short list of people’s opinions. And the rest of the people they say, other people’s opinions of me are none of my business. And it’s a powerful shift. And the more insights I talked about in the book, but those are very powerful, then dosage is the next step, which is controlling the intensity of this move into your discomfort zone. If you if you say, I’m really uncomfortable with parties, I never meet anybody, don’t start going to power parties where you don’t know anybody and try to meet everybody. Talk to somebody in Starbucks every day, for two weeks. Every time I talk to strangers start simply control the intensity of it, just like you wouldn’t if you were if you were trying to run marathons, you wouldn’t start by running 26 miles, because you would be hospitalized. You run one mile, then two, then three, then four, it’s the same thing, building your boldness muscle, you expand your comfort zone by gradually trying more and more stuff and creating a positive feedback loop. Then the final step is everyday action. Do a bold action every day, so that it becomes part of your default behavior. So you don’t have to choose to do it or not. I get to the point sometimes in a day where I was like, wow, I haven’t talked to a stranger all day. And I’ll go to a grocery store and talk to somebody in line or in the produce department or some just to do it every day. And you know, I do it all the time. But in my mind, I want my brain to know that this is what I this is who I am, is I am somebody who steps up from speaks up who presents my full self out there and take bold action.

Nicole Laino 

I really like that because I and I’m thinking about I do this I think about myself and how I experience things. But the what you’re talking about about talking to somebody in the grocery store in the in the in Starbucks. I do that. And what an No, I don’t think I was deliberately doing what you were talking about, like building a boldness boldness muscle, but I do I did recognize in myself that I had this that I can sink into from a thing from childhood, I can sink into this feeling that like people can’t be trusted that that people don’t support me. And there’s always this underlying thing like everything that you describe here. Every every step is in its low in its low expression in when we’re in a low expression of these things like we’re not prepping, we are not relaxed. We’re in like high beta mode in our mind. We are it’s it’s just a way of your body, your nervous system and your subconscious hedging you and keeping you where you are not prepping is just that part of you that says let’s not succeed too much because it’s scary over there. So we don’t we’re gonna do we’re gonna half ass this prep part. We’re gonna we’re gonna we’re going to convince ourselves of that belief. We’re going to prove out that belief that we’re really not good enough for this thing that we want. And that’s that so that’s the muscle I feel like you’re building thing is that, you know, we’re getting out of that hedging and we’re stepping into the No, I’m gonna believe in this bet, I’m gonna believe in myself. But that feeling for me was people can’t be trusted. People don’t support me, people like I had this fear, I had this and it came up a lot. Where I was, I was always efforting through it. And rather than making it like I like how you make it in these really safe environments of, you’re just going to talk to a stranger. I do that. And that what I taught myself through that process. Again, not deliberately doing this, like you were to build this muscle, it was just something where I was like, I just need to talk to people, I just need to connect with people, and show myself that this is safe, is that people are so happy to hear from me, people are so happy to be spoken to, they’re so happy to be noticed. Like the guy that says bye to me and target. Like I make it a point to stop and say like, it’s so nice of you think you kind of made my day just by smiling at me. And then I had this lovely moment with him, rather than thinking it in my head and going to my car and not saying it. Taking that time to take that hit that inspiration and say why don’t I share that? It taught me that lesson there in that moment where I was like, Oh, I got something good back by saying something good to somebody. It worked in the reverse of the way that I was afraid that these things work.

Fred Joyal 

Right? It actually is. There’s a selfish aspect to it, that you’re not aiming for it. But it comes from that, like, when I am, I’m in Starbucks, and I’ll get my drink from the barista. And I’ll step back and then I’ll come back and I’ll say, Excuse me, what are they expecting me to complain about the drink. And so I say, this is absolutely perfect. And you and you just see their face, because they’ll make 1000 drinks over the course of that day. And all they get is people complaining about when it’s not right. So I it’s such a clean playing field for me to make them feel good. Because all I have to do is say this, this is just what I wanted, you just made it so perfectly. And when you start to do that, you realize this is like fairy dust that I can sprinkle around everywhere. And I feel better doing it. Even even crazier. Now, when I see somebody and I have a judgment about them, because we have crazy judgments about everybody, right? And we’re wrong, like 98% of the time. You know, we judge people on their height on what they’re wearing, whether their hair, their glasses, or, you know, the sound of their voice we got we got all categories of reasons to judge people. So now I pick the thing that I have a judgement about that I think is odd or weird or, and and I’ll craft I’ll prepare a compliment about that. And I’ll say you know that you know that golf look, it’s really working for you. You know, it’s, you know, it’s really striking. And they’ll go Oh, thank you and there’ll be like the sweetest people, right? You think that they’re like headbangers or something like that, and they’re just, it’s just the look that they like. But what I’ve done is two things. I’ve made them feel good about the choice that they’ve made. And it also changes my feeling about them. Like oh, yeah, so I don’t have to judge them and my judgment was probably wrong. So I released myself from my own judgment in that process, so it becomes this great game of I look at them and go like those those glasses look stupid on them. I’m going to compliment those glasses. Of course, I can’t stick with them looking stupid anymore. Because I’m stupid for thinking that

Nicole Laino 

well, and the judgment usually has more to do with us than it does about them. It’s more like I can’t pull that off. I’m so ordinary look at how look at how out there they are like I wish Yeah, I like for me I had for a long time I was just like, if in my head I called you a weirdo that was like the highest compliment because I was really just looking at you being like so average. I was looking at you as being like you are bold in a way that I that I am not and to turn that into admiration and to look at myself and say well where am I bold? Where can I be bold? Where am I seeing that as a slight to myself and giving myself some compassion there? I want to ask you just you have such an interesting history you have the you know one 800 dentist your written books your your dabbled in acting. And you know we touched on this about you not you know that you weren’t born bold, but it seems like you’ve made a conscious decision to make very bold moves throughout your life. What’s the first bold move that you made? Was that it was just with one 800 dentist I guess there was you brought it up that it was something that nobody had ever done before. You’re getting people to you know, buy into this, this program that you know people are like what what are you talking about? Hmm, how did you was that kind of like your first real test of like, being bold? Because it was a big? I’m guessing it was a big investment of your time of your energy probably of yours or someone else’s money. And you had to get investors for that. What was a lift like that, like, on your on your psyche?

Fred Joyal 

Yeah, well, it definitely was stepping off the high board hoping there’s water in the pool. And but I had gotten to this point in my life where I was excited by that, as well is, as I had, I had done some things that just yielded, that just surprised me. That that I was so wrong about that the number of times when you’re, you’re, you’re talking about I can’t trust people. My big thing is that I don’t I don’t belong here. I don’t measure up to this group, this, this woman is not going to be interested in me. Because she’s smarter, more successful, more attractive, or all three. And the times that I released that, I realized I was 100% Wrong. And I just started doing those things. So when the business came along, I it was part of it was the frustration of being an employee. It was like, I don’t think I can do this. I don’t think I can work for somebody the rest of my life. That’s the you know, my partner and I, we always talked about it, I said, Look, I can either be baffling or broke, but I can’t be middle class. I can’t work it. And so we had to take it, we had to take a chance. And I had him as an ally, he had bold aspects of his behavior that I could tap into and emulate. And my creative work was all bold this because I learned when you came up with something crazy. In the advertising, they would love it, they would say because we can dial this back. But if it’s only average, it’s hard to dial up. Yeah, so I learned it’s like, no, I’m going to come up with the nuttiest pitch. And, and we may never even do that. But we’ll get the client because they go let some wild stuff you want to do, it scares the hell out of us. So we’re probably not going to do it, what we love, Fred, we love his ideas. So we want to work with you guys. And so that started it. And then I just, you know, and the other thing about it about boldness and executing boldness in your life is you do stuff that basically locks the door behind you, you know, you get you got no way out you we raised $30,000 from our family. And then we made all these promises to these dentists about what was going to happen. We had to make it read somehow it had to work. And then we got to hundreds of 1000s of dollars in debt with with advertising. And so we we just had to keep going, we had to figure it out. So the boats in we burned the boats in the harbor, for sure. And it’s a great thing to do. When you don’t give yourself a way out, you have to step up, you have to speak up, you have to try stuff, and fail. And you realize that failure is just information, which bold people already knew.

Nicole Laino 

And that’s really that that that is the thing that that I was just thinking this the other day that people that are truly successful. The people that are you know, in that seven, eight figure mark, they know that doing the scary thing is they’ve proven it enough to themselves that and you kind of touched on this is that those moments where you did step in and do something really bold, magic kind of happened. Not only did it work out, it’s that’s when you let the magic in. That’s when things work out better than you could have anticipated. It comes from the big bold move. But now I want to ask you about this just because I think it plays into this and I’m curious what your your take on it is I know that there’s there’s a big saying out there, you know, like do it scared, do it afraid? Do you find that that really works? Doing it afraid? Or is it part of that relaxed the insight, the dosage, that you’re, you’re doing it kind of afraid, but you’re building where you can really put energy around being bold, because that doesn’t require an innate confidence in order to have boldness work for you.

Fred Joyal 

It takes tapping into something when somebody says do it scared. That’s like saying, why don’t you just relax? And you say, if I knew how to do that I would write and also now I know it’s obvious I’m not relaxed and now I’m more anxious. When once you learn to apply a technique, you’re not trying to summon this outrageous amount of courage and confidence, you have built yourself up to it. When when I show you how to relax and you start to breathe, you do that you vibrate the vagus nerve, as part of your preparation, you say, Wow, I can actually physically relax myself. So the reverse happens, you go, I’m in control of my body now, I still sweat when I’m on stage. But it’s mostly because I’m, I’m a madman. I’m like giving them everything I can come up with. And it doesn’t matter what goes wrong. One of the things I teach speakers is, nothing goes wrong on stage, because they don’t know. You know, I’ve my favorite story is a friend of mine, she broke a heel on stage. In 1000 people in the audience, horrifying thing, all the women in the audience went like. And she kicks her shoes off and says, I guess I need to spend more than 30 bucks on shoes from now on, and does the rest of the lecture barefoot. They bust out laughing because they’re so embarrassed for her. And she’s not embarrassed. She rolled with a G used it. And she they loved her after that point, because she was just a regular person that rolled with something that went horribly wrong. And she decided, is nothing wrong with that.

Nicole Laino 

And it’s far more memorable. Having a moment that you you know, like I think about like Adele on I think she was the Grammy she’s singing and she started over because she couldn’t get herself to get your thing. She’s like, I’m sorry, I have to do that over again. I’m really, really sorry. And it’s all anyone talked about was how amazing Adele was to to own that moment. Yeah. And I think that that’s like, I remember dropping a line on stage. And it’s every actors, like just horror, like nightmare is that they’re going to drop a line, I will, I’m going to forget what I have to say. But I had this amazing moment with my scene partner where he’s looking at me, and I’m looking at him. And I’m trying to like, they always tell you tell you find it in your partner’s eyes. And I’m looking at him. And we have this hilarious moment on stage. And then the line comes to me and it comes in a totally unexpected way. And it threw the scene into a whole different space than it ever had before in rehearsals. And it was better than it ever was before. And I also learned that you don’t die when that happens. You’re not it. I didn’t die on stage, and I didn’t literally die. So it’s I agree with everything that you’re saying. And I like that I like that you acknowledge that there is a build up of this confidence that there is, you don’t just wake up one day and you’re like, I’m I’m super bold now. From now,

Fred Joyal 

it’s like that. If you study improv comedy, they don’t say, Okay, here’s three people go on stage with them. Here’s a scene created. They start nonverbally, and work their way up to one word to word things you build. And I designed my exercises in my book exactly the same way this five levels of exercise that start by smiling at strangers, you don’t even have to say anything. But eventually you’re doing karaoke, you’re doing crazy stuff. You’re, you know, a bunch of people go, Yeah, I’m never going to get to that. And I meant, like, you’re gonna get to it, and eventually, you’re going to want to do it just because you’ve done everything else. And you’re gonna realize, like you said, you don’t die, it’s a choice to feel bad about it. You can’t die of embarrassment. It’s not a medical condition, right? And so when you realize that, you say, Okay, that wasn’t that bad. And, and I got through it. And, you know, people laughed at me or it was, it was really, I walked on stage once. And like you say, you learn from when it goes bad. I was, I’m onstage I got about to play a video. So I hit the clicker to play a video, the power goes out in the entire hotel. And so I just look at the clicker. I go, Wow, this this thing is more powerful than I thought it was. And so I had no, I had a whole flow from that video and the whole point. And that was a natural light coming in the room so I could keep going. So I just I moved this story that I normally tell at the end, I moved it all the way up to here. And as I’m telling it, I’m saying I’m saying to myself, this is where this story belongs, it doesn’t belong at the end. So it was like this epiphany that came out of the mistake. Because I just I said well, I have to do something. So it just it went the The undiscovered magnificent things are what’s out there when you are bold. This will happen to you I’m sure all the time too. If You just talk to people long enough, you’ll figure out, you know, somebody together. Yes. I’ve seen it happen so fast that I was out to dinner with a friend of mine, we just started to talk to this, this, this guy sitting in the waiting for our table. Within 15 minutes, she realized she knew one of his best friends. And he lived in Florida, she lived in Austin. And it we just went, Oh, here we are one degree of separation, just because we talked. And just were interested in each other. And that’s, that’s deep down. That’s what I try to tell people too, is, you know, when when you and it’s the old adage, if you want to be interesting, be interested. Shy and under-confident people feel like they’re not interesting. And that’s what they have to bring. You don’t have to bring anything, be nice and be interested in somebody. And when they tell you something interesting, say, tell me more about that. Don’t try to match it with your own story and hope it’s just as interesting. You don’t have to tell them anything. I’ve met people I know practically their life story. They know nothing about me. And they think I’m fascinating. Because I was interested in

Nicole Laino 

well, and I think like what I what I keep what keeps coming to mind with this is that, you know, and this happens all the time. And we talk about this on the show all the time, which is that people overcomplicate things, that that It’s the simple things, it’s the simple thing that you’re not doing. It’s a simple thing, like just making a move. But the other thing that I keep getting from you just just some of the things that you were saying was that being bold is kind of it’s taking that step before you know how it’s all going to happen. And trusting and having some belief, like for you to start your company, for you to step on stage for you to write the book, you kind of have to trust that I’m thinking you had to believe enough that the bold action would lead you somewhere whether you knew exactly where that next step was going or not.

Fred Joyal 

Yeah, and you can, if you look back at your life, there will always be one or two or three times where you were bold and something extraordinary happened. you finally said, I really want to meet that person, dammit, I am going to walk across the room and talk to him. Or I, you know, I saw I saw Tom Hanks at one point sitting with Rita waiting to pick up some food at Fred Segal in Santa Monica. And I thought, I want to just tell him I’m watching from the Earth to the Moon with that the HBO series, I just want to tell them how much I like it. So I just walked over and told him he couldn’t have been more excited to hear my enthusiasm. He says, I so appreciate you telling me this, he says this is such a labor of love for us. He says I’m so glad you’re enjoying it. You know, it’s like, you’re really gonna love how it finishes, you know, it was. And I could have said, he’s, he’s a superstar, you know, he’s not gonna want to talk to me, he doesn’t need me to tell him he’s doing a good job. I shut all that down and walked over to him. And to the end, that thing informs so much else of what I do. Because I look back and go, Tom Hanks talked to me, and was appreciative of me talking to him. And I’ve used that. And so look back in your life when those when you did do those things. And that’s the impetus to to make a bold move. Because it’s going to happen again, it’s going to it’s going to be good, it’s going to be interesting. And don’t be so concerned, I don’t need us. You know, if you go up and go, I have to get a selfie with him. Now you now you have an agenda. Now you’re out for an outcome. When I talk to strangers, I have no outcome except to make them feel good about themselves. And maybe if I talk to them long enough to establish some sort of human connection, I’m looking not looking to network, I’m not looking to sell them, or give them my business card or get them to go online and buy my book. I’m not aiming for anything, because we smell the ulterior motive on people. And that’s when we retreat. And that’s why it’s not working for people is in your mind. You go like I really I really need to this guy is a potential customer or I really need to ask this guy, you know how how I could raise money for my business. It’s like you’re walking up with such a massive agenda, that there’s just like, can’t we just have a conversation? And I’ve done it with billionaires, you know, that just have regular conversation with other people go like, he’s a billionaire. He doesn’t want to talk to you or doesn’t, you know, he doesn’t care about you. And like, that’s interesting. Let me tell you the five billionaires I’ve talked to that that’s not true.

Nicole Laino 

Exactly. Well, I think that that comes from when we try to engineer something when we try to like we have that ulterior motive. We have that agenda. And it really comes from the lack of trust that it can happen any other way. And so that’s part of to me that probably part of the relaxing part because I love that you brought up the vagus nerve. Because what you’re talking about there, just for the people who don’t know what the vagus nerve is, we actually did an episode on the vagus nerve. I can’t remember what it was. But it was with Melanie Weller, many episodes back, you can go back and listen to that and get a full vagus nerve tutorial. But we’re talking about regulating your nervous system. We’re talking about calming your body, we’re talking about putting you at a deep level of relaxation, not just you know, being quiet for a moment, which can be wonderful. But but you’re what you’re talking about is regulating the nervous system, which is a sustainable practice for relaxation. It has, it has legs. It’s not a quick fix. It works quickly. But it’s not it’s not the thing. That’s that’s going to work once and then you’ve got to, you’ve got to start from scratch again, that’s actually a really a really wonderful practice. But, but, Fred, thank you for this, because I think everybody needed to hear this, I think I know that these conversations always enrich me, even though this is like what I live and breathe every day. It’s reminding ourselves that because some days, it’s hard to be bold, and some days, it’s easy. But you can do something that’s simple, and still be bold, you can still take this as a practice and make this as part of your being, and see tremendous effects in your life, the ripple effect in your life, from just not really not living life scared. So thank you for being here and for sharing for sharing all of your your wisdom and your thoughts on this. Where can they? Where can people stay in touch with you? Where can they get your book, tell them, tell them where they can find you.

Fred Joyal 

So my website is Fredjoyal.com JOYAl, no dots or dashes or anything like that. And you can see a couple of boldness lectures that I’ve done, you can download the first chapter of the book, if you’re reading the book, digitally, like Kindle, because it’s on Kindle, it’s on Audible, it’s me reading it, and there’s hardcover, all available on Amazon. If you do the exercises, you want a physical copy of them. So you can download the exercises in PDF form from the website if you’re listening or on Kindle, so that you have them, because you gotta it’s about doing stuff. And so that’s that’s the key. And I’m actually doing a two day workshop. June 24. And 25th is the first workshop there will be several more in Los Angeles, I’m doing this the first time, it’s a two day intensive super boldness workshop, I mean, you will you will leave changed from this, you will you will be equipped to be to build your boldness muscle rapidly from from that moment on. But that’s, that’s my goal in life is and I want I want people to read it and say I did this stuff. You know, I just started talking to strangers. And I realized I actually did this with a woman two days ago at a convention, talked about it said start talking to strangers. And then I had a copy of my book and I gave it to her. She saw me later in the afternoon the next day and she says, I’m already doing it. And she says, and I’m the one who’s benefiting. She says I’m making people feel good. And it’s making me feel good. Yep. So that’s, that’s yeah. So why not? Why not be that for? Why not be that way? It’s not becoming a different person. It’s just changing your behavior. Let’s go all the way back to this idea of labeling yourself as shy. Or an I’m an introvert. How was that helpful, right to label yourself that way. It’s just your behavior sometimes. So I never let my you behave in a shy way in some situations. So stop telling yourself, that’s who you are. Because who you are is who you want to be. When you let go of who you are, you realize who you can become.

Nicole Laino 

amazing. And that’s a perfect note to leave this on. I think that that’s kind of like the mic drop moment. We’re gonna, we’re gonna stop it right there. Because walk away with that. Walk away knowing that. Thank you, Fred, for being here. This was an amazing conversation. I appreciate you. Thank you for sharing with everyone. Please go out and get the book Super Bowl from under confident to charismatic and 90 days it’s wherever books are sold. And for you listener who made it all the way to the end of this conversation with us. Thank you for being part of it. Thank you for being here with us. Thank you for being a supporter of this show. I leave you with what I always leave you with this reminder that you are only limited by the limitations that you accept. And when you stop accepting those limits. Since that is when you become limitless so go out there and be limitless everyone and I will see you on the next one

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