Nicole Laino
Hello, and welcome to the limitless entrepreneur podcast. I’m your host, Nicole Laino. And I’m here with a guest today, I’m excited, you should be excited because this topic today and my guest today is really going to speak to your heart. I really believe that truly because I know my people, and I know where you’re at. I know that many, many of you are sitting at home wondering, how do I grow a list? How do I expand my audience? How do I grow my following, and my guest today is going to dispel a lot of those myths, we’re going to we’re going to do a lot of myth busting. And we’re gonna actually show you some real strategies for not necessarily growing up but but making money, doing things that actually that actually lead to what you really want. And not just the vanity metric of having a bigger list. So I’m here with Robbie Samuels. Robbie is an author, a speaker and a business growth strategist. And he’s he’s a networking expert as well, Harvard Business Review, actually, and Forbes and life hacker all have have recognized him as a networking expert. So he’s got this really interesting background. Robbie, I’m so excited for you to be here. Tell everybody what I missed about you. The other things, tell them about your book, there’s so much

Robbie Samuels
sure thing. And thank you so much for having me here and Nicole. So prior to the pandemic, it’s been over a decade working to be recognized as a networking expert. I spoke about the topic of networking at conferences for that time, all around the country, wrote a book on networking, called croissants versus bagels, strategic, effective and inclusive networking at conferences, did a TEDx talk on the topic group coaching program, I was poised to be an overnight success, 10 years in the making, until March 2020, when no one needed the skills that I had acquired around eye contact business cards, shaking hands and body language. So in an attempt to show up and add value, I ended up hosting a virtual happy hour, my first on March 13 2020. And that led to me creating several new revenue streams very quickly. And I was able to grow a thriving six figure business as a virtual event design consultant and executive zoom producer. I also run a program where I help people become certified virtual event professionals. So essentially, I kept getting asked the question, Robbie, how did you do that? You know, like, all the events that I had lined up, were gone. And I had to come up with a new plan. And the the sort of secret to my success is that at the same time that I was faced with all that I was actually a business growth strategist working on behalf of a company coaching about a dozen entrepreneurs a week, and they were going through a crisis as well. And when I started getting all those, pick your brain catch up, call Robbie, can you help me, I could have easily filled my calendar. And in some ways, like I’m an outgoing extrovert, like it sounded really great to have a chance to talk to people that weren’t asking me to feed them, because that’s the only people I was interacting with in that moment. But I knew that I would never give that advice to a client. And so I treated myself like a coaching client, I turned those calls into research calls. And that’s what led to me announcing my first pilot in April, mid April of 2020. I said May I’m running this four week program who wants in, and 15 people signed up $5 apiece and we were off to the races. And within a few months, the price had more than doubled. And it became a certification program. So that led to companies hiring me right to bring their events online with less stress and greater participant engagement. So my my book that just came out smallest big results, which is all about how to launch an offer with no matter the size, your email, it’s all about how do you build an audience first? That’s kind of the answer to that. Robbie, how did you do it? Question and I wanted to give people a step by step process so they can do it themselves.

Nicole Laino
I love all of this because what you’re really talking about is what most people are more comfortable with and what they have a problem with with social media. You were you were a belly to belly guy, you were an eye contact handshake guy, as you said, and then the pandemic happened, which, you know, the pandemic, crisis breeds creativity and innovation, for sure. And I think that you’re a shining example of that you, you know, something was knocked out like you, some people would have laid down and just been like, Oh, what do I do? What do I do, but instead you you saw opportunity, and you said, there’s there’s got to be a way there’s got to be I’m going to look for the light in this and I’m gonna follow it. And so So, you know, being able to make that pivot and you went online. And that’s where I think a lot of people get tripped up. They’re like, how do I do it online? How do I really build relationships? How do I build relationships when I’m not standing in front of somebody? And I have to, I’ll admit, from my own experience, too, I’ve I’ve gone I’ve done the Cha Cha with that where I’ve gotten really comfortable with being online and then other times where I’m like, I need to retreat I need to I need It kind of, I don’t know how to do this, it feels impersonal. It feels that negative voice gets in your head. So when you coming at this from the standpoint of, and correct me if I’m wrong, but we’re going for if you’re talking about doing a small list with big results, you’re talking about building connection, I’m guessing through, you know, not concentrating on the number of people, but the, you know, go deep rather than wide. Is that, right? Just,

Robbie Samuels
that’s right. I mean, the premise for me when I was teaching people networking at events versus different than online, was that events are about content and connection. That’s the reason that we made an effort to get on a plane and travel and go far, you know, put ourselves in discomfort and spend a lot of money to be somewhere, it wasn’t just for the content, we have access to online events, and webinars and podcasts and books before the pandemic. But when events became synonymous with virtual events, when that was the only way to get access to content, I knew we had to find a way to provide connection through those online forums as well. And that was the angle that I came at it. So I learned all these techniques and strategies and technical stuff, not because I just want to geek out on that alone, because I was trying to solve that problem. And in reality, I have made deeper connections in the last two years with people that either I not known at all or only tangentially known prior to the pandemic than I did the five years prior. And I’m saying that as a person who is a prolific networker who goes out all the time, but it’s not about always going out. It’s about the follow up. It’s about the relationships that you build over time. And I think the main difference, Nicole is that in person, I would see you at a conference. Maybe that first year we would chit chat, maybe a year later, we decided to have a drink with a few friends. And maybe by the third year, we were tucked in between year two and three. But all that time, we’re not really building connection. Now I see someone at a weekly event, I see them the following week at the weekly event I said How long can we commit weekly event. And I am getting like so much further in getting to know people and understand them and be able to refer them and vice versa than I was before.

Nicole Laino
So talk to me a little bit about you brought up the the magic word follow up? How can you follow up with somebody and not have it feel super fake and superficial and self serving? Because I think that that’s what stops a lot of people. And again, I’ll speak from my own experience. I will I have I’m part of a an online networking group. And I love it. It’s fantastic. And the fact that I have been what you’re talking about that frequency, that consistency where I can show up and I can be me get people to know me by just being me, and showing up and being the person that I am and offering what I offer there. But I do struggle with the like, you know, and then in 14 days, just sort of like drop in and follow up with somebody or you know, send them a note. How do you go about doing that without it feeling? Weird?

Robbie Samuels
Yeah, I mean, one I never expect to shake someone’s hand and, and have money handed to me. And the other hand, like, I think that there’s this way in which I think sometimes people think oh, just to like close the deal, like no, it’s not. That’s not it at all. It’s not that that’s not the approach. One of the things I love about the online networking versus in person is the ability to share resources. While the events happening. The only sort of comparison to this would be an active Twitter hashtag during a conference where you’re like, able to post things and capture quotes or post a resource or something. But we’ve kind of moved away from that model over the last, you know, years before the pandemic. So today I was at a conference, I was at a networking session. And people were asking questions. And so there was an opportunity for me to raise my hand and offer my insights about audio online and what what microphones to use and how to how to set up your home studio. And then I looked up some resources online, and I shared those in shot and related to the topic. And so those were things that I hadn’t created, just things I know about. And then I also shared resources that I have created. I’ll go here’s a here’s a, you know, masterclass that I did about setting up a podcast. And you do that you show up often enough in that way. People are thanking you for raising your hand and saying something people are thanking you for posting something in chat. And it doesn’t have to be your own content, it’s actually better that you’re listening to the conversation. And if a speaker mentions a website or resource or a podcast that you can go and get the link and drop it in chat on behalf of everybody else. It makes the speaker’s life easier. It makes the chat more interesting and worth saving. And it makes you stand out amongst all the people I’ve done this on the webinars where you can’t see each other and I’ve done this when you have the opportunity being breakout rooms. So that ends up people reaching out to me to be on my LinkedIn and then I say Hey, we should schedule a chat. Let’s just learn about each other and so I’m always value first, like how can I offer, offer, offer, and the ask will come if I understand enough about what you need to give you a really specific offer. Then it makes sense for me to say, here’s the way we could work together. Or my favorite line is actually this sort of say, Hey, I have so many ideas for you, like, do you want to hear what it’s like for us to work together? That sort of can actually come up in a conversation?

Nicole Laino
Now, I do want to get to the list side of this, and how and how you’re building your list? Are you building your list through your networking groups? Is that how you’re doing it? Is that part of your process? Or are you thinking about list building? And like the traditional sense? And I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to like, step on you there.

Robbie Samuels
I I’m, I’m from New York, if I’m not, if I’m not interrupting? I’m not paying attention. Nicole, come on now. All right. So I think that list building for me is about adding the right kinds of people not about just adding numbers. And so I focus on engagement. And I could be open rate, click through rate, and people hit reply, some combination of that is what I pay attention to. I actually celebrate people unsubscribing, because when people can self select out by saying like, this is not for me, either t’s too much, it’s not right, whatever, I’m not opening it. That actually helps my open rates, which helps my deliverability. And I think that’s, that’s a good thing. I want people to choose that. So I want to be really clear about who my message is for and be consistent in what I put into my emails. One way to avoid people unsubscribing by the ways to never send an email, which is not a way to grow business. But if you’re really nervous about unsubscribes, like just don’t send email, they’ll forget all about you. But I just really think we have to shift our mindset around that. So what I look for is, I’ll do talks for membership groups, go on podcasts, I’ll, you know, I might do a pro bono or, or lower paid talk to get in front of the right audience. I’ve got lots of lead magnets, depending on the situation, there’s lead magnets in my books that provide lots of value. So I want to invite people in based on that. And then I’ve also started participating in giveaways, this is sort of a new thing for me. And I’ve Nicole, I’ve really liked them. And I’m learning a lot of them. Now, my third one this year, they’re all a little different. I’m seeing pros and cons, I might want to do one myself in the future. But it’s just like, Oh, here’s all these abundant entrepreneurs who want to give away a resource, which is their freebie, but we’re going to do it collectively and cross promote. And I just, you know, I just think it could be a great tool for my audience to connect with all these great experts and get this content. And you can select which people to follow, you don’t have to join all the lists, you join the ones that, you know, speak to you in that moment. And so I it’s a combination of things for me, but it’s really about engaging with the audience that I have. And it’s an Honestly, my my offer that I was able to create in you know, April of 2020. It wasn’t through my email list. It was through my network reaching out to me like that’s the thing I think people are usually forgetting, is that your network is so much bigger than your email list. By multiples, it is so much bigger. And think about the the groups you’re a part of, whether it’s Facebook, or LinkedIn, or networking groups that you’re paying for. So there’s so many other opportunities to connect and engage that go well beyond the subscription email list.

Nicole Laino
And what’s a common mistake, or the most common mistake or just one you see all the time that kind of irks you that people make when they’re trying to network grow their network? What do you see people do that you’re like, please stop. I’m gonna show you

Robbie Samuels
well, the spray and pray in person is when people walk in a room and just start handing their business card out to everybody without like much conversation. It’s like putting it on everyone’s chair and expecting that people gonna be like, Oh, look, what I found. This is so exciting. No goes on the floor. And if you you know, it same thing online is when people show up to an to an event, probably when they haven’t even been to before and they immediately start blasting the chat with like these full large texts, you know, full of content. I think there’s a time and place to hand a business card into posts, your contact information, your LinkedIn, your website into chat. It’s usually after you’ve spoken after you’ve offered something after you’ve had a connection, and always with value first. So I just think that could be tamped down a bit. And the other is just poorly designed online events where people aren’t given the opportunity to connect with each other. I mean, this is my jam, right? I’m a I’m an executive team producer. So I really think about purpose first design and making sure that you know if one of the one of the goals of the event is engagement that we designed with that in mind.

Nicole Laino
So for the person who’s sitting at home right now being like I really want to network, I really want to grow my network. I really want to grow my list and I want to do it in a purposeful way. I don’t want to just get more But I want the right people, where would you tell them to start? What would be kind of? What’s the process that you would walk them through? If you were in a group with them? And they were, they talked about having this problem, what would you what would you advise?

Robbie Samuels
Well, usually the problem comes up when someone’s trying to sell something, you’re not trying to sell something, it’s sort of, it’s less urgent to grow your list. It’s like a nice to have. But when you’re trying to sell something, and you’ve worked really hard, I mean, we’re experts, we know what people need, we hear the problem we meet, they go and create a solution. We spend months sometimes tweaking and perfecting it, maybe even paying to get professional videos, we get a learning management system and a new website design. I mean, we really go all out. And then we bring it to the market. And the market basically says, Who are you? What is this? Yeah, I don’t, I don’t need this. And we’re floored. So we do a quick assessment. We’re like, why is this happening? Oh, I don’t have a big enough email list. That’s the deduction, you know. And then the second thing I also hear from people is, I don’t know enough about my ideal client. It’s not clear enough. And so I’m like blasting this thing out there, I need to go find my people. So they’ll pay someone to do Facebook ads. So they’ll, they’ll decide to do a virtual summit as a way to do list building. But what they’re forgetting to do is talk to the people who are most likely to benefit from whatever the solution is that they are creating. And so the mistake is that they have created the offer the solution, the program, the course, whatever it is, in a vacuum. Yeah. And they didn’t build a runway for it. And so for me, the solution is that you, you have research calls, and my book is all about, how do you figure out who are your most likely prospects and likely referral partners from within your existing network who know like and trust you, these are people who may not even be on your email list, but would really want to have a conversation with you about this would recognize your name, you’d be happy to hear from them there based on what you know, they’re interested, some of them may actually have some influence in the world. So they actually might be great referral partners. And you just want to get on the call with them schedule a zoom chat and not pitch. I think that’s the other mistake is the pitching happens next. So that’s the beginning of the process. And I’m of course happy to share more.

Nicole Laino
Yeah, I mean, well, I think, you know, you touched on a lot of things. In my program, I teach, you know, validating your offer and doing market research. Because what happens is you end up spinning your wheels, what do I create? What do I create time goes on, you freak out about it, because you’re like, I’m not making money, I don’t have the offer, I better get on it and just start creating something, and then nobody wants it or it’s wrong. And you have to go back and go back to the drawing board and redo it. And everybody pushes back. Nobody wants to do the market research part. It’s the most unsexy, but I’ll tell you, it’s selling without having to sell like you’re you’re asking people what they want, people love to be be paid attention to to be heard to like, it suddenly becomes like a therapy session for them where they’re like, you know, I have this problem. And this is what I’m really struggling with. And, and you get the benefit of hearing what somebody who is just like the person you want to or close to the person you want to attract. You get to hear them out, and you get to be that person. And then you get all of that information where you can go and create something that is so tailored to the person that you want. It’s, it’s a no brainer, but people get stuck there. And they get into that into that feeling of, of wanting to do something. And I’m like this is doing something. Research is doing something. And I’m a believer, I’m going through market research. Right now I’m about to do like my big spray of asking people if they’ll sit down for a market research, meeting with me a session with me, because I’m validating a new offer, I’m going I don’t just do it. Once I do it every time I’m creating something new, I want to get feedback, I want to know what people are doing because again, you don’t want to create something in a vacuum. It’s the most it’s the most unsexy but most important piece of that process that often gets overlooked.

Robbie Samuels
I actually found that there’s sort of two extremes for why people don’t want to do this. And I have held people’s hands like dozens of people’s hands through this process. I will also say just on the outset that everyone who’s actually gone through the whole process, to the point where they’re piloting an offer with people who actually want the offer, found it incredibly valuable and a good use of their time. And they all complained at various points for various reasons. So there’s two reasons I think people don’t get started. One is fear of talking to people just like just not it’s not their thing. They don’t have to do it. I don’t think I have anyone to talk to. That’s a myth. I don’t know what I would say I have nothing to offer. That’s a myth like so. So there’s like a mindset piece. I think that’s part of it. And the book really kind of helps you walk through like here are the mechanics to discover the list and here’s exactly what to do in those calls. The other reason is As experts syndrome, that’s what I call it. It’s the people who just know, I know my audience, I know what they need. I’ve been doing this for so long, and they don’t have your attitude of there’s always growth, there’s always new learnings, the world keeps changing. I mean, the world is definitely not where it was three years ago, and it’s not going to be there three years from now. And if you have these calls, which are not sales calls, it actually builds the runway for your offer. Now, I’ll tell you one, group people, I think can skip this. If you’ve got 10s of 1000s of people on an email list, you essentially own a fleet of helicopters. And if you have an idea that you want to test out, you mentioned it once. And you can easily get 25 people to sign up because this percentage is so small, to the 80,000 150,000 people. But those of us with smaller lists, and small is based on your own judgment. Like if I said 5000, some people will be like, I would love to have 5000 people, if I said 2000, there would still be people saying oh my god, I would love to have 2000 people. But if you’re at 5000, you might be like no way is that that’s too small, like I need 25,000. So if you have a smaller list in your mind, the more conversations you have in the process of building out your offer, even if you don’t make a lot of tweaks, even if you were perfectly right about what people needed. Those people like you said, feel heard, they feel listened to, they feel like they they co created this with you they feel bought in, they’re more likely to want to refer you they know exactly what you’re working on, they trust you. And you’re building the runway so that the little plane you have the smaller the list, the smaller plane, it needs a longer runway. And so all these conversations are the longer runway. And this is true, by the way, whether it’s a paid offer, or it’s a book you’re creating, or podcasts you’re creating. I just had someone who interviewed me, she read my book, and she said, You know, I was in the middle of writing a book, when I read your book, and I realized that I was writing the book that I wanted to write, and that it wasn’t the book that my people really needed based on what they were telling me, I stopped. She said it was a really difficult decision. But now in hindsight, it’s the smartest thing I could have done, that content is all there, I will use it eventually. But now I’m having those conversations. And I’m creating the book that I know people need that I had sort of thought it’s too fundamental. Everyone knows this. And but you realize like, No, it’s because you’re an expert. That’s why it feels fundamental. So it’s like, how it’s amazing how we sometimes in our effort to be helpful, we are not providing the best service.

Nicole Laino
Know exactly, well. And it all does come back to mindset. I mean, I I’m, that’s what I teach is getting out of your own way, the art of getting out of your own way. And you know, because you have to expand your view, because right now you have tunnel vision to exactly where you’ve gotten yourself and you have to the job every day is to open up a little bit wider and a little bit wider to see your blind spots and to see what you can’t see. The fear of talking to people that one like that, that’s I think that’s at the heart of most of it. It’s it’s the fear of asking. And I think that that comes from this fundamental, fundamental issue that I have seen come up over and over and over and over again, which is this just feeling that people have, that people do not support them? People won’t buy it, people won’t like it, people won’t say yes, people want. And if that’s you listening to this, if that is you feeling that, then one you want to clear out whatever old stuff you have that put that belief in you that’s that’s how you have long term sustainable success with this. But you start by proving it wrong, you start by asking and seeing that that is actually just a gremlin in your head telling you about a boogeyman that doesn’t exist, that that there are people who support you and go and start finding those that that proof in your life. And you can find it all the time. You know, you can just think support. who supports me, you know, my family, my who does? And then and then go ask somebody go ask somebody will you sit for 30 minutes, offer them something in return if you want, you don’t have to, but we’ll use it for 30 minutes for a market research call. I promise I’m not selling you anything. I really just want to understand more about what you’re going through because I’m creating something and I want to make sure I’m doing it right. And I’m doing it I’m not making the product i think that I I should make. I want to make the product that people really need. I’ve had tons of people do these calls happily with me, but and I had to get over that myself. Will people say yes. Will people really want Am I putting people out? And that’s the people pleaser in so many of us particularly. I mean, you know, women have that in spades. We kind of live as people pleasers and men do too, but but women were kind of put in that position from birth. Um, But I love this. And I love that. And it’s funny, you know, before we got on, I didn’t know where we were going to go with this new we’re going to talk about I knew that topic we were going to talk about, but I didn’t know that you were going to go with the market research with that, that we would end up there. But it’s such an important piece. And when you have that all the questions that you are grappling with and spinning around in your head right now, they like they answer themselves.

Robbie Samuels
Yeah, my ideal clients actually are entrepreneurial women in their 50s and beyond who are trying to grow their impact and income through a new revenue stream, usually a new one to many program, or course, or mastermind or something. And they’re experts, they their 20, or 30 years of being a professional at whatever they’re doing. They’ve got an amazing amount of knowledge. But they also feel like a novice, in this moment, because it’s maybe the first time in a long time, they feel like uncertain. And they’re out of their comfort zone, because they’re trying to do something they’ve never done. Maybe they’ve been speaking for a long time, or coaching one on one. But now they’re trying to do something else. It could be a book, it could be a podcast could be a group offer. And that’s just unnerving on its own. And they forget, they’ve got this amazing network to lean into people who would be happy to get on a call. And I think the other thing that they mystify is what to have what happens on those calls. So the book really goes into detail about, you know, I asked people to come with three questions or scenarios or problems to talk about, and then don’t just solve them. So in my book, I talk about this journey that are likely prospects are on from what I call little P problem aware, which if you’re familiar with this, this awareness spectrum, it’s often called sin symptom aware, but I don’t think that’s in the perspective of our client, like our prospect like in their, in their perspective, it’s not a symptom, it’s a problem. It’s just right. And you understand that it’s not the big problem, it’s but it’s still for them, the defining thing they’re working on right now. And they’re trying to look for a remedy. And the remedy they’re looking for is a band aid. Right? That’s it’s a, it’s a simplistic approach. All of our conversations; research calls, marketing, you know, emails, being on this interview with you, for me, it’s about helping people shift from that little P awareness of the problem to what I would think of as a bigger P problem awareness. Like, what’s actually holding you back what you actually need to work on. And only when that shift starts to happen to people become open to a bigger solution. So if I like came into this conversation, and I was like, here’s the really big solution, here’s the surgery, you need to solve this once and for all, and you were looking for a band aid. It’s a ridiculous, it’s just ridiculous idea. And I’ve got a great thing in the book about poison ivy and, and bulldozers kind of illustrate this through the book. But it’s just that I think too often the way we are selling things is we’re selling the solution to the big offer the big, the big problem, and our audience just doesn’t know they need it. So part of these calls is you’re building that awareness within your market. At the same time understanding Well, I will have to sell them the thing they think they need, and then and then get them the information that is missing. And when they start to realize that you’re the trusted guy that can help them implement whatever that big solution is. The last question before they sign up is a question of urgency. You know, what is the cost of inaction? Because before not taking a new action, and always using a band aid approach, it wasn’t really a decision made, like didn’t have more information. But now they do they know about the bigger problem, they know about the possible solution, they know that you’re available to guide them. If they decide to do nothing for the next six months. That is a decision they made. And at some point, there might be this feeling that that’s not okay, anymore. There’s this there’s a cost to the inaction. And that’s when people come back to you and say, Hey, can we work together? That is attraction. And I think in our effort to serve, we often over deliver lots of free tactics and tips. And we fill up an hour worth of like great ideas that are not a strategy. And those people don’t come back to us because they’re overwhelmed. They don’t take action, they feel bound, they don’t understand what action to take, they don’t want to bother you anymore. You’ve already been so generous. And you hear through the grapevine that they’ve hired someone else. And like, I’ve got this magical question to like, help solve that. It’s actually at Robbiesamuels.com/magical, I’ve got a video and a whole series of like, how to turn those pick your brain calls into into the prospect conversation. But I think too often, like we’re spinning on wheels, like we are the only thing we can change. And, like if and when you start seeing results, like you said, that’s the best antidote to like, feeling like this isn’t going to work is seeing it work.

Nicole Laino
You have to prove it to yourself. You have to I mean, you know, you can do all the mindset work that you want, but if you’re not backing it up with some action that’s going to creep back up on you. And I mean, I talked about you know, releasing these things from your central nervous system because we have triggers that are, you know, if if you’re afraid of people, and if you felt like people didn’t like you growing up, then going to networking and going to networking events and virtually networking and making it about reaching out and what you think is getting people to like you, that’s going to be a big trigger for you. And you need to work that out while you’re taking action. But it’s very funny because it’s, it’s the, it’s so simple, that people don’t think it can work, it’s got to be more complicated than this, that’s been my experience anyway, is that you lay out this, this this process, which to me, tell me if I’m wrong, but this is how I’ve always seen it, know who you are, and what you do, be able to be that be able to communicate that without pitching people, where you’re at least you’ve got some ways that you are communicating where that where they’re understanding what you do who you are, and kind of your your jam in general. Without you necessarily pitching people or giving people a spiel, it just kind of is who you are and how you communicate. And then being in front of those people getting to know people building real connections, and having that sense of trust that this will, this will pay off. I know that by me being me and me being in front of people and me making connections, this is going to work. Most people think it’s got to be more complicated than that. What what do you say?

Robbie Samuels
I will say that I’m like 95%, completely agree in agreement. And here’s the 5%. I did a lot of that for several years, I was the the primary caregiver for two children for three and a half years when my kids were born in 2015, and 2017, while I was building a business, so my attention was split. And so I I didn’t, I was doing a lot of that activity of being places and showing up but I wasn’t building offers. And I wasn’t asking they paid. And so I had a talk, that was the thing I did. And I had a podcast, and I eventually wrote a book. But most of the things I was doing were not money, revenue generated. And I just didn’t have tension to do all the things. And I realized eventually, that I had to actually put an offer together and ask like, like, if you it’s sort of like, if you’re like always around, people get used to you being all around, but they don’t then value you for your thoughts. Like my mother always said, if you want to be paid more be the out of town expert, you got to be the person who shows up with luggage, because then they’ll respect you. And they’ll listen to you because you’re like not the person in the room all the time. And I think that’s the you have to at some point, you’ve built all that rapport, you’ve built a know like and trust, you’ve got to put together an offer. And the best way to put together an offer is to validate it, reconnect and re you know, rebuild those relationships that you may have lost over time and then pilot something without making a big deal of it to the world. So that you can quietly test it before you make big announcements and spend a lot of money and time and effort to sell. So I was really good at the beginning part of like being places and showing up. But I didn’t start to make money in my business until I actually started to ask and the funny part is they call my background is actually fundraising. I was running fundraising events doing major gifts work in my career before I focused on entrepreneurship. And I would do a talk actually one of my earlier talks was fundraising, how to get past the fear of asking. So I came into this thinking, I don’t know anything about sales. I don’t know anything about this, like corporate busy thing. Oh my god, the moment I realized that I was teaching fundraising and if I can teach people how to get through the angst of asking for that. And by the way, this is common, like refrain if you’re afraid to ask kick yourself out of the way and let the cars talk? Well, it turns out in business, it’s not much different. If you truly believe the thing you’re creating will have value for the people you’re talking to. Don’t make it about yourself and your angst and your fear and you’re like I’m gonna be bothering you because then you’re making it about you you’re not actually being of service. So kick yourself out of the way and talk about the value and the outcome that people will you’re likely to receive by having this experience and by inviting input by asking people for their feedback by incorporating their feedback into your offer that is making it about them and big, creating the best possible

Robbie Samuels
solution. And I had this like up click and suddenly I’m like upsells conversation professional like I’m like teaching it because I get I get the eggs but I also know that if you have if you have like a tried and true this is what I’m going to do. It’s just like a pattern. It’s you know, the first few times I would get on a my had to restart sorry fundraising calls. Oh my gosh, so like 25 minutes that I would waste getting my desk clean. Like, you know what I mean? Like Fresh pad paper, my favorite pen, the phone tilted just this right angle, like, oh, it was someone calling me, you know. And then as soon as I actually got on the calls, I was fine by like the second call, you know, but just that inertia is really it’s very weighty. And so you the action, imperfect action is actually sometimes the best thing we can do. And by having conversations like this, it will really get you out of your own way. Because you’re going there to listen, you’re going there to learn, going to be open to hearing things. And I will say that I’ve done this and found out found found clients, I was calling I was doing actually this informally at a lunch, someone was picking my brain. And so I just was like, Oh, by the way, I’ve got this group program working on, and she was like, Oh, tell me all about it. And I was like, oh, okay, I had no idea that this person be interested. So I’m telling her, and it wasn’t she goes, what do you have anything one on one, because like, I don’t really want to wait around for a group program to be ready for what I need. I’m just ready. I didn’t prepare that answer. I was in front of her. And I had a pen and I literally had a napkin, and I was doing back of the napkin math, because based on the new offer, I had to up my price, like, yeah, and she was a friend. So she kind of helped me in that space. But sometimes you will uncover new opportunities for different kinds of offers, that you wouldn’t have thought of like, you were like, oh, unless it must be an online course. And you discover people want a coaching program, or I’m really excited about a mastermind and discover people need training, they don’t need a mastermind, they’re not ready for that. That’s where the opportunities abound. So don’t make it about what you want. Make it about what will be of greatest service that would still bring you, you know, the joy of delivery.

Nicole Laino
And for the person who’s who’s maybe confused by well, how do I how do I ask, without being that person who’s pitching my networking friends? And like, how do you thread that needle? And not be that person who’s selling to everybody? And the person who’s doing what you what you did you know what you’re saying, to have an offer? I mean, of course, you have to have something to sell if you plan to if you plan to make money, like that’s for sure. If you don’t have that, then start there. Start with the market research calls and build out your offer. But how is it that you go about and ask in a way that doesn’t feel icky? Or like you’re pushing your stuff on your friends.

Robbie Samuels
So for the research call, I just want to say, keep the requests for the research call super simple. Hey, I’m working on something. And I thought of you I’m trying to put together something around blank because of your experience with blank. I thought you’d have something to offer share, you know, I want to make sure I don’t kind of go down the wrong path on this. Do you have some time for us to chat, but like that’s just it like don’t and don’t include your booking link on that first email. Don’t make don’t include a thesis don’t include slides. Just super simple, like one to two short paragraphs and follow up, like have a plan. If you send it on a Tuesday, hit reply on Friday, hit reply the following Wednesday. And if they don’t respond, and you think they’d be a perfect person, try them through some other channel, like send them a text and then a pm on LinkedIn. Because not everyone is good at email, or paying attention or busy, who knows. But it’s your it’s urgent and important to you not to anyone else. Like we have to hold the responsibility of making sure these conversations happen. And then if they respond you like great. That makes the best use of our time, I would love for you to come having thought about three problems, scenarios, challenges, questions about blank. And hey, I have this booking link I used to screen scheduling easier. Would you mind using it? Here it is? And that little question by the way, I’ve asked people to come to a call you’ve got this could be a discovery call. So if you’ve already have an offer, you may not have a research call, but maybe it’s discovery call. Having them think about that for a moment before coming on the call already starts them on the process of moving from little problem aware symptoms to big big problem aware. Now the danger is when people get on a call for discovery call research call and they tell us the three things we almost want to laugh because that’s the issue. No, here’s the three things you just do. And we wave it away. Missed opportunity instead put your coaching hat on and walk them through this. What about these three things like tell me more like so for this one? how is this impacting your life your work your sleep, your out your bottom line, your team morale, whatever it retains to? What have you tried? what’s worked, what do you think would work? Why do you think you need to make this work? You know, is there something else you need to do first before you work on this? Are these the most urgent things or something else coming up that you realize you need to work on? Like what am I not asked you that I should be asking you about? Just getting them thinking about that makes them actually have agency in this conversation? They’re actually on the journey. They’re the main player and you’re the guide you’re not steering this, you’re just asking them a thoughtful questions. And then they’ll start to have some epiphanies, oh my gosh, every time I go my backyard, I get poison ivy, you know, like, that’s like an awareness. And now you’re like, yeah, so here’s a couple of things that might work. And listen, we’ve only talked for 15 minutes. And when I work with clients, I do a deep dive for three hours, because I want to understand your vision and values before I create a strategy. But based on the things I’ve talked about, and the people I’ve worked with, here are two things that will help you move forward. And notice I didn’t give them an hour’s worth of free advice to things. And I say, Listen, it may not be perfect. So if as you try this, it doesn’t work, or you hit a road bump in the road, I come back to me, and you know, I’m gonna keep talking to people. And if I find that it’s something better for you, I’ll come back to you leaves the door open. This is means they go away with a very thoughtful next step. And they think of you as a person they can come back to you literally said, Come back to me. And then if whatever you’re creating, and piloting seems like it would fit for them, you reach back out and you say, Hey, there’s this thing that you said that has stuck with me include a paragraph or phrase about that, as I was working on this, and I want to get to now it’s starting to become a thing. Before I go any further, I thought I’d run it past you, did you have time to hop on another call. And when they get on a call, you want to share two things, your promise, which is the outcome of this pilot, you know, by working together, you will be able to you believe you will know right? You will feel you you will do whatever it is. And then hey, what do you think? You listen, this is not a point to argue that they’re, they’re giving you gold. And then you say, well, here’s generally how it would happen. I’m going to send a text every morning for 14 days to tell you about the remind you to breathe. And to do your mantras. I’m going to do an online course I’m going to do a group, whatever it is, and what do you think? And they tell you, and you’re like Jews generally topics, they tell you what they think. And then you’re like, I love that you’re interested because I reached out thinking you’d be perfect for this. What do you think about joining the pilot, I love your feedback. And because of that I want to offer you the best prices will ever be at when I release this to the market will be x but for you, it will be y which is you know, half of that. Let me What do you think let me know. And then that’s how you do enrollment, that that enrollment is an invitation. If you already have an offer. It’s like you do some of these things. But I think a discovery call is very similar spring, three things that you want to talk about. And then you want to spend time on that call helping them see the bigger picture. Like for me my sales call, which is when I come on people who I know that we’re having like it’s a sales call, it’s like, well, where do you want to go?

Robbie Samuels
What’s stopping you from getting there? What do you think you need? Would you like to hear what I think you need? And then I have so many more ideas? Would you like to talk about what would be like for us to work together. And it’s like, you just kind of need to give people some agency to move through this process with you.

Nicole Laino
Know, I love it, I love it. And you gave so much value here, I think you’ve demonstrated so much of it here of what you do and what you preach. I know that I know that everybody’s going to want to stay in touch with you and know how they can get in contact with you. Because we’ve covered a lot and I want to kind of I want to leave it here because I feel like we’ve given people a lot to absorb. And I want you to use it those start using this, go start implementing some of what we’ve been talking about here. So where can they keep in touch with you, I know you have a free gift, tell them where they can where they can stay in contact with you.

Robbie Samuels
So there’s the big results Toolkit, which is a bonus content for small lists big results. And it’s available at Robbiesamuels.com/limitless. And so there’s a 30 minute training, there’s a bunch of workbooks and worksheets that will help you implement the strategies in the book, even if you don’t get the book honestly. But you’ll have the invitation to get the book as well. And Robbiesamuels.com is where you can learn about all my passions as a business owner and what I work on. I host a free event on the first Friday of every month where people can come and network and ask questions. That’s it nomorebadzoom.com. And men generally just like find me on LinkedIn. It’s Connect.

Nicole Laino
Awesome. Well thank you for being here. And thank you for sharing so generously. With everyone I appreciate you. It’s great to great to get to hang out with you here. And for you listener who made it all the way to the end of this interview with us. We appreciate you being part of the conversation. We love you. Thank you for being a part of this show. Remember, you are only limited by the limitations that you accept. And when you stop accepting those limitations. That is when you become limitless. So go out there and be limitless everyone will see you next time.