Nicole: Hello and welcome to Unshakeable With Human Design. I’m your host, Nicole Laino, and today everybody. I’m so excited to bring this really remarkable woman to you. I met her at a retreat for a mastermind that I’m a part of, and I actually met her at an event prior to that, but I got to know her more at this retreat.

And there are just some people that pull you in. There’s just some people that you are just like you feel expanded by and then you want to bring them to everybody else. And you’re like, who else can I expose to this magic that this woman has? And, I was just, and everybody at the retreat, everybody that I know that has encountered her has had a very similar experience.

So it’s not isolated to me. She’s not only wise, she’s just she has this deep, rich history of lived experience and she brings it all together in the most beautiful and actionable and easy to understand way. She is a kindred spirit in that way. Because we’re both, we’re both 5/1’s.

She’s a 5/1 sacral manifesting generator, I’m emotional, but I’m also a 5/1 and I’m a manifesting generator. And there’s a magic to the 5/1 that is explaining things in a way that people can understand, universalizing the information, and being able to bring it down to earth in a way that hits people.

In the way that they need to hear it at that moment, if they’re the right person for you. And she was the right person for me. She is an Enneagram expert. She is the host of the very, very popular and amazing podcast Lead with the Enneagram. Her name is Tracy O’Malley, and I am so thrilled to have you here, Tracy, and I’m thrilled to call you my friend, and to have you here.

Tracy: Same. And I feel the same way about you. In the land of human design there’s lots of gurus, experts out there, and there’s some that are okay, but nobody really captured me. Because I speak Enneagram language most of the time. But human design is important for me to understand. There’s a lot of commonalities between the two and the self-awareness piece. But you as a 5/1 manifesting generator, enneagram seven, honestly was able, you were able to speak it to me in a way where it was like, yes. Okay, tell me more. And I don’t take that lightly when I’m not impressed by many people.

So when I met you, I was equally as intrigued and drawn in. So thank you for having me, and thank you for trusting me with the people that trust you. I don’t take that lightly at all. 

Nicole: No, I and the same, I did an episode on Tracy’s podcast recently as well, which I encourage you to go back and listen to cause we talked all about human design and how it lays over with the Enneagram. So I want this to be a really lovely companion to that episode. And you did the same thing for me. So just a little history into my history with the Enneagram. Enneagram, I had been typed, or I shouldn’t say I had been typed.

I have to differentiate between the two. I ran a test online twice and I was given, I was typed as a four and I was typed as a three, and neither of those really, the three kind of resonated. The four, I was like, that doesn’t necessarily feel like me. And it also felt really subjective. I was like, how accurate could this be if it changes every time and then 

exactly.

Nicole: And then you typed me, which is very different. And when I got that, I was a seven and I was like, I was not expecting that. 

Tracy: Yeah. 

Nicole: And it not only resonated, but the way that you brought, like it wasn’t just about this is who you are, it was, this is where you come from, this is where like the motivation comes from. So can you tell everybody a little bit about your history with the Enneagram and why the way that you do it is different? 

Tracy: I came into it kicking and screaming 11 years ago by my therapist. She, I was not at the greatest point in my life, quite honestly. And, excuse me, she wanted me to take this assessment and with very colorful words, I told her I did not want to, and she is tough. She’s from Texas. She’s an Enneagram eight like I am, and she was like, quite honestly, honey, your best singing has gotten you here. And this actually might help you get outta the box that not only you have put yourself in, but the world has also put you in. So how about you open up your mind a little bit? And I appreciated her candor.

I appreciated with my colorful language and energy, that intensity that I bring to the table, which is usually to put people back on their toes. I appreciated that she would go toe to toe with me and the respect was there. So I was like, all right. Just like you, when I first took an assessment, it was inaccurate. Most of the online assessments, even the paid ones are inaccurate 65 to 70% of the time. Just fyi. And if you’re going to use this tool, having the right information is important. I also was mistyped originally as a three, which behaviorally I can see in both of us. The competitive achiever, but as a manifesting generator as well, we only will crush things that we’re super passionate about. And that’s not a three motive, three’s crush things because the three is more like a generator. Quite honestly, and so we, we quickly understood that I’m not remotely motivated, like the three behaviorally. I can look like a three depending on the circumstance and the situation, but the motive behind everything I do has nothing to do with what a three is. And same for you. I could tell you right away there’s no way you’re a three. And so we recognize that actually how I’m motivated and the things that I fear at the core of who I am is very much like an eight. And what that did was unlock why I do push people back, why I am so private, why I am very cautious, domineering, sometimes aggressive, intense.

And it gave me language in a way that didn’t pull out the shame stick on me. It made me understand myself at a deeper level. And at the time I was also, branching into and taking the journey of recovery and sobriety from not just alcohol but eating dysfunctions and disordered crap and codependency.

I was also journeying then and I’m still maintaining that and I think understanding myself made that process, which is really hard, a lot easier. Removing substances and people and places and things is only the symptom of the problem. Like getting to the root of why you do what you do is the key to having long-term kind of sobriety and recovery.

And the Enneagram really allowed me to get to the heart of things really quickly without the emotional charge to it. And when I was sitting there learning about myself, I had this aha moment. Sitting in rehab with my therapist, oh, I only speak this one language, and I am raising two children who were 14 and 15 at the time, who don’t have the same makeup.

And I quickly started to dive deeper into the other eight types. There’s nine types on the Enneagram, and I realized that the two that I’m raising are not only different from me, but they’re different from each other. And so I started to learn their language while I was journeying on myself to kind of understand how they are motivated and how they fear. And when I came home, I started integrating that information. I didn’t tell them what they were. I never mentioned the word Enneagram, but I know my children well and I know what is at the heart of both of them, but I didn’t have a framework before.

And this gave me a framework that when I started integrating my understanding and the intent from all the beautiful, loving places. That it shifted our household overnight. Overnight. And I was like locked in. And then, obviously I started bringing it into business and leadership and all sorts of other things, but that’s where the roots started.

Nicole: And that’s, so talk to me a little bit about motivation versus behavior.

Tracy: We have behaviors that are usually the coping mechanism. In the land of Enneagram, there’s three main motives, and depending on what your Enneagram type is, you’ll fall into one of these three.

Now we are, excuse me, I’m fighting bronchitis. We do use all three of these things, like they’re all important, but wherever we default to, once we bypass our intuition and our nervous system we fall into our core Enneagram type, which is our personality, our expression, and the core motive There.

But a lot of times if you’re motivated by something, this is like who we are designed to be. But then we’ve had experiences and situations and family dynamics and traumas quite honestly that we’ve learned a dysfunctional way to gain that motive. Let’s say you are a two, three, or four on the Enneagram, you’re motivated by a need for significance. We all have that need. But for the two, three, and four, that’s like their first go-to all the time. How that looks for all three is really different.

And you can imagine if you are motivated by a need for significance and you’ve had some hard experiences that you get reassurance that you’re significant if you do this or if you say this, or if you embody this, that’s not always the healthiest expression of needing significance. And same thing with the five, six, and seven’s need for certainty, right? Sometimes they’re paralyzed by that need for certainty, not always the healthiest kind of thing. And so behaviorally, they can act out in ways to gain certainty.

That’s not the healthiest kind of way to do that. And then for the eights, nines, and ones that are motivated by independence and autonomy. Obviously as an eight, I’m always motivated by independence and autonomy and control. Now how I go about that behaviorally sometimes can be a shit show. Totally. Right?

Especially if I feel like that’s being betrayed or compromised and because of the experience I had growing up, behaviorally. I could look like a peacemaker by keeping harmony. So behaviorally I can look like that. Same thing with why we both behaviorally tested as threes, because depending on the time that we were taking this test in our life, maybe we were going after something.

And so behaviorally we look very three but at the root of who you are, you want options. You want everything available to you. That’s not necessarily significance driven. That’s certainty driven. So this is why those online assessments, which don’t take artificial intelligence is great. It is, I love it.

But it can’t take everything into consideration all the time. And so this is why the behavior versus motive is really important to understand. And it’s funny, I get a lot of people, especially high achieving women, that mistype as threes and they’re really excited. They’re like, yeah, I’m a three. I’m like, no, you’re so not, but okay, let’s dive a little deeper. And then when they find out like they’re a two or something, they’re like, oh my God. I’m like, I know. Like I get it. I get it. When I found out I was an eight, I was like, great. I’m an asshole. That’s awesome. Awesome. 

Nicole: When I found out I was a three, or when I got the result back that I was a three, the feeling was I actually didn’t like it where it didn’t feel true to me. And it was definitely, it was at the beginning of me jumping into entrepreneurship. So I was absolutely chasing something. I was in achievement mode. But when I read it, I was like, that doesn’t feel like who I am. And that was the difference. And that was, I think, the thing, the disconnect for me, where I was like, I don’t want to go deeper into this because there’s something that is resonating, incorrectly with me, where I’m like, I don’t, this doesn’t feel right.

And then the seven, that motivation of certainty, I can see that on a spectrum in my life and how it is a consistent theme for me, but also just that, that need for freedom. 

Tracy: Yeah. And. That’s the biggest fear for a seven is being boxed in. Options are taken away. Freedom is restricted. Like threes, they don’t care so much about that, but sevens absolutely, that’s the core of every big fear that a seven has.

Nicole: I want it all. I want it all. 

Tracy: That’s why you are an enthusiastic visionary. You are and you can have it all. You absolutely can. Now, how you go about it is very interesting. 

Nicole: Yeah. And I want to go a little bit because I didn’t know that these things really existed because I had a superficial relationship with the Enneagram for the reasons I just explained. But when you typed us, so at the Mastermind the, one of the things, one of the many things that we’ve gotten with. With that membership is we were typed by you and then we had this session with you at our retreat where you went through the whole thing and you told us about our try type and then you explained the wings.And that to me, grounded into nuance and made it much more multi-dimensional than just like you’re a seven and this is the same, the seven thing you’re going to do. That I was like, okay, now I’m starting to see this. And I saw it lay over a lot with some of my, a lot of my human design chart. 

Tracy: Yeah. 

Nicole: And then, and then the wings and how that really resonated with me because the wings, when you explained that and I knew what the wings were and we’ll get, I want you to explain a little bit about that. But just how it affected me. The areas I have seen the most growth and where I have seen myself really grow and expand as a person were when I, not knowingly leaning into my wings, but when I did, when I was embodying the energy of those and working on myself in that way or nurturing myself in those ways is when I’ve seen the greatest expansion. And what I do like about this outside of human design is obviously my tool of choice. But what I think Engram really has to offer is there is a simplicity to it. There’s obviously, there’s a lot of depth. But, just like type strategy and authority.

When you get some of these things down, you can have really tremendous results with just using a few pieces of this system. And it can be like, like you said, life changing. So can you tell everybody a little bit about the wings and how they work? 

Tracy: Yeah. And before we do that, I want to explain for those of you that are familiar or not familiar with the Enneagram, like how the framework works real quick.

And you won’t hear it explained like this anywhere else, and this is where I’m very different because I’m like, just bottom line me, tell me how this benefits me and what this actually means. And so I just want to give you this quick visual of what this looks like. So in a beautiful, perfect world we are operating in our intuition and honoring the nervous system, our body, the ultimate compass, right? And I do believe those are divine gifts from a source, right? Whatever you call that, it’s totally up to you. 

But you know that intuition and our nervous system, most of us, I would say most people that I’ve encountered in my 51 years of life bypass both of those pretty quickly. Because it doesn’t make a hell of a lot of sense. It’s holy crap, what does that mean? And if you’re like me, who and Nicole who are just like, go after it go-getters. Our body keeps the score and our body never lies. But so often we’re like, yeah, I know better.

See ya. Take a backseat, hold my beer. Like I’m going to go do my thing. And that’s where the Enneagram kind of comes into play. It’s, we default into our core type, which is where we’re motivated and where our fears reside. And then that is in a center of intelligence. And like I said, we use all three of these centers of intelligence and that’s where the tri type came in.

But wherever your core type defaults to is the center of intelligence you go to first by default. And the key to using the Enneagram and the things I’m going to tell you about the wings and the other framework allows you to get back to your intuition and your nervous system and regulating that, right?

Your personality will always be the special sauce on all of this. Always, it’s always going to be there. It’s always magical and it’s always beautiful. We have to change the, “come from”. We don’t have to change who we are, but the “come from” is really important. But when we default into our personality, even the highest level of your personality, having the right tool for the job is really important.

And sometimes the core of who we are isn’t the right tool for the job. And we need these supporting tools or like how I explained it. Sometimes our favorite movies aren’t based on the lead character. Usually my favorite movies have a killer supporting cast. Like always. And even at the Oscars, I don’t care so much about the actor of the year.

I love the supporting roles because they’re what make a movie great. And that’s the wings of the Enneagram are like the supporting cast. They aren’t front and center all the time, but they add some special tools to the toolbox that when you know how and when to use them, they can be a difference maker.

And for most of us, we’ve even used these wings in a not so healthy way. That’s where some of the behaviors come into play. We’re like, especially when we’re younger and hell’s breaking loose and we don’t know what we’re doing. We’re pulling any tool out. We’re trying to take a hammer to something when we need a chainsaw and things like that.

And so the wings of the Enneagram, whatever your core type is, your wings are only the numbers on either side of you. So let’s say you are a seven like Nicole. You have a six on one side and an eight on the other. Those are the only two wings you have. Now, a lot of you that might be familiar with the Enneagram, you’ve heard I’m a seven wing six, or I’m a three wing four.

I want you to think about it for a moment. If you’re an airplane or a bird, if you only have one wing, you’re either going to fly in circles or you’re going to crash. Same thing with the wings of the Enneagram. You have two, use them both. Usually you might default to one a little bit easier than the other.

One might be an easier access for you. Nicole probably leans heavier, two or eight typically. But as she evolves and grows and understands where she needs to use her six, she can use that more effectively. It’s just like building a muscle, right? You have to know how and when to use it, and you have to add resistance and practice and all the things in order to get really skilled at that.

But the wings are the secret sauce in all of this, because by default, you and I will operate in the core motive and the core fears. And although that proves to work out well for us, and we have receipts for it. To be like the goat, the heavyweight champion of our world. We need the supporting cast we do.

And those wings are that, and for each Enneagram type, they’re different. So even though Nicole and I we’re each other’s wings, which is cool, I love a lot of my close friends are sevens. So they’re a beautiful, healthy example of one of my wings. And I see examples of how they operate and where that can work for me.

And just because I know what they do, I have to practice doing that. So it’s why I spend a lot of time with sevens because that’s, that was a harder wing for me to access in a healthy way back when I was, escaping life through alcohol and food and codependency. I could use my seven wing in a not so healthy way. ..That’s the basic explanation of what the wings are and why they’re so important. 

Nicole: Yeah, because that was it. And it’s a nice way to say even because I look at human design. We have like your signature theme and we have your not self theme, which tell you like, Hey, this is the red flag that you’re out of alignment. Here’s the sign that says keep doing what you’re doing, girl. Things. You’re doing it right. We have these little signals that are there to let us know when we’re at a bumper. Are we in the middle of the lane or are we bumping up to the sides and about to go in the gutter?

And what the wings I think are, is when things aren’t going right or if I want to expand, I can look to the wings to be like, what do I feel is necessary here right now? What are the aspects of this? It’s a nice place to go to, to ask good questions of yourself. 

Tracy: Absolutely. And like I said the wings bring different gifts and skills to the table. Because if I’m left to my own default all the time, I’m going to be aggressive and domineering and not think about the consequences of that or think about feelings. And so before, like the wings are a really good pause button for you before you come in hot and or for some of you, before you withdraw or, just accommodate. So before I operate in my eight-ness. I’m like, okay, supporting roles, like what’s the best case scenario of what I need to do here In a way that, you know, especially when we’re dealing with humans, whether we’re as a parent, a partner, a friend, a leader, a coach, whatever. We have to be able to communicate in a way of what’s in it for them.

Otherwise, no matter how right we are, it’s not going to land and it won’t matter. And you know, 11 years ago, instead of just having to be right all the time, I wanted to be more effective as a mom, as a friend, as a leader, whatever. And so that pause button and the supporting help of the wings really helped me.

Okay. I know how the eight in me wants to say this and articulate this. I know that won’t be received very well. So let’s vision cast with my seven wing. How would a seven express this more fun and light and positive, right? Where my eight in me can be very tactical and pessimistic if I’m not careful.

And then obviously having a nine wing is like the adaptive peacemaker, which is Yoda or a divine spirit and they’re speaking in a way that’s the greatest good for everyone. The eight in me won’t naturally default to that, so really knowing how to use that seven and nine to help me craft my communication in a way that is not only more effective, but really feels good for the person on the receiving end. Game. Freaking changer for sure. And I don’t waste as much energy, like seriously, like 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Tracy: When we’re operating in our default all the time, it’s like a constant revving engine where sometimes we gotta take our foot off the gas a little bit and work smarter, not necessarily harder.

Nicole: And that’s a nice little segue into, because I see how you work with leaders, you work with high achievers. What is it? Obviously what they can benefit from, but also what do you notice working with people who are high performers, who have big goals? And what is it that you work with them and how can the Enneagram help them to achieve more to, to achieve more balance and to ultimately, get what we want.

Tracy: Here’s the benefit of me being in my fifties at this point, is I have a lot of life experience and I, trust me, if I could have found a workaround, I would’ve found it. Trust me, I am again motivated by independence, autonomy, and control, and people trying to tell me how and what to do. I pretty much have learned everything the hard way. And so when I’m working with high achievers, no matter your enneagram type or human design, there’s a dark side to every one of us or a not so healthy come from, right? What I say about the Enneagram is each type has their very unique, beautiful, super powers.

My unique superpower is my intensity, my ability to see holes in things. It’s only my superpower when I’m coming from a place of love, compassion, empathy, service, and grace. Honestly, that same intensity and poking holes in things absolutely has been a wrecking ball in my life and in my relationships, and in a lot of ways. Same gift or kryptonite here. But when it’s a wrecking ball in my life, it’s coming from fear, insecurity, unworthiness, shame, guilt, ego. And so the cool part is we don’t have to change who we are. That was so refreshing to me. It’s cool, I’m intense. That’s not changing. I know this. But the come from, I absolutely have a responsibility to work on constantly.

And so when I’m working with leaders, specifically, even those that have all the receipts to show that this has worked okay for them. Then why are you talking to me? Because there’s something usually in our life if we are crushing it in one area, I guarantee 90% of you have something else that’s falling through the cracks because we haven’t found that harmony and flow into being the same person all across the board.

Knowing when to take our foot off the gas. And so a lot of times when I see somebody, let’s say they’re crushing it in business, I’m like, okay, let’s talk about the marriage. And they’re like, oh, let’s talk about the children. Let’s talk about your hormone levels and your cortisol and your adrenals, or let’s talk about your friendships and your support group, or let’s talk about this little drinking thing you got going on.

So for most of us, if we’re crushing it somewhere, Usually there’s a shame closet or a shame cave we’re in because we know that we can’t sustain that without dropping the ball over here. And so the gift of the Enneagram has given me in my life, like I pretty much have all my buckets doing well at all times.

Now, there are moments, obviously because we’re humans, And I have my own shit where I will take my foot off the gas somewhere else and then, all the things. But the gift of the Enneagram is really finding harmony, fulfillment, compassion, and knowing Hey, just because I might not have this amount of success, and you insert what your measuring stick is.

But I feel fulfilled here. I feel harmony here. I feel great here. My health is thriving. My kids are doing great. My relationships are solid. The bank account is doing well and I’m not, and you’re not looking for all these other outside variables to dictate what success is to you. It’s this internal job because when you understand your framework and know how to effectively use it, holistically, the rest falls into place. It really does. It really does. And even though, especially if you’re driven by significance, the outside world may not give you what you want. You realize that you don’t need the outside world to tell you how significant you are, or for my certainty people, even though you’re seeking all this evidence on the outside, that you have certainty, when you integrate this framework, remember how I said you go back into your own intuition and your own nervous system, and that is true success. When you are operating in that, the rest falls into place, but you’re going to have to reframe and recalibrate what you’re measuring stick you’ve been using for a long time.

For 40 years, I used measuring sticks that were outdated and dysfunctional, and I like, I’m still motivated by being strong. Like I will always like that will always be where I want to flex, but I now have a very healthy measuring stick of what strong is. Where before it was like, I gotta be strong and powerful and domineering, and now strong is my vulnerability and my ability to say, you know what, I’m going to tap out of this one.

That’s strength today. So that’s how we use this in like leaders like high level leaders, like you know that you’re dropping the ball somewhere and you might be hiding and you might be overcompensating socially. But if you know there’s something kind of brewing, I’m going to tell you right now, don’t wait until all the wheels fly off the axle, like start building this muscle.

Now, I don’t recommend blowing up your life like I did in order to learn this, but sometimes you gotta learn the hard way.

Nicole: We do. We all have our path, and what you’re describing, like you’re eight. I feel like it’s, it makes sense that I have a wing eight too, which is yeah. I hear very much the 5/1 in there and it’s whether you are like hard in on it or and that was a big part for me was when you talk about stepping into your wings and using this to expand. The way that I’m hearing this is like when you’re a balanced human, then your life starts to become balanced.

And when you are, there’s a theme that I have. I have it tattooed on my wrist, is trust. And when we have this trust in ourselves, that intuition that you’re talking about, that. Makes us unshakable. That’s what makes us unshakable, is the fact that I trust that I’m being led. I trust that I can find my way out of anything.

That I, any mess that I get into because I know I have the tools to readjust and evaluate myself in a way that’s with curiosity, not criticism and in a way where I’m not going into the shame cave and then making anything that happens making me a bad person to say oh, this is just an artifact of the way that I operate, of the framework that I’m in.

And like the 5/1. Yeah. Super shadowy, has lots of shadows, has lots of weird elements to it. Great power and for me, learning to love that part of me. To love the eight, to love the 5/1, to love those characteristics and to see how they had so much to offer the people who came into my life that it wasn’t this hindrance and it didn’t make me, didn’t make me an asshole like you were saying.

And learning to love that. And for me, leaning into my six and understanding what that means and how that can soften things and offer something else hugely impactful. The same way that looking at my human design chart, I can look at, my emotional authority as not being right, something I want to run away from, or something that I want to pretend like it’s not there.

Can I embrace it? Can I learn from this? And that’s the beauty of these tools, is that they illuminate aspects of ourselves. So we could look at them objectively and not with criticism or not hearing our mother’s voice or feeling the trauma from the past, and look at them from a place of just of love and acceptance and say oh, that’s just a way, it’s just mechanics, 

Tracy: I was 40 years old when I really, I’ve been in personal development and diving deep since I was 28, for the last 12 years, 11 years, like I’ve been fully committed to this. And, there’s a lot of talk about inner child work and things like that, and it’s not a box you check, but a lot of times the shadowy parts of who we are rooted in the stuff that w e were taught, told and modeled or said to, whatever, and those little kids in us build the belief and the coping mechanisms around that and understanding my Enneagram and anytime I wanted to judge myself or pull out the shame stick or get aggressive and angry and push people away, I was able to recognize that four year old in me.

And that’s my first memory of me bypassing my intuition and my nervous system. I remember it very clearly as a four year old, understanding that this doesn’t fall into alignment with what’s happening in my house right now. And so bypassing that and using the shadowy parts of who I am as a 5/1 manifesting generator and as an Enneagram eight it was rooted in that scared little four year old and a lot of times when I want to go to the shamest stick or the anger or the judgment of myself, you know I have a picture of myself as a four year old. It was the lock screen on my phone for three years as a reminder. But even as I’m sitting here at my desk, I’m looking at this beautiful picture of my four year old self, and anytime I want to judge her or judge myself, I know I’m judging her and not on my watch. Am I going to do that? And so these tools can really also help you do some deep inner child healing stuff so that not only you can heal, but especially if you’re a parent or you have an impact that you make in a child’s life, it is really important that they see you break cycles that have been passed on.

And these tools absolutely have made me a cycle breaker. It has made me a black sheep in the family as well. I often say the black sheep usually becomes the goat. So I’m all about it, but it can really help you with some of this deeper healing work as well.

Nicole: And just a question. Do you know what your parents were? I don’t know if they’re still with us, but do you know your parents type? 

Tracy: My dad was an enneagram eight as well. A very dysfunctional one. He was an alcoholic, a very high functioning alcoholic. Also super sensitive I see the parts and the eight of him that I were so endearing and juicy and sensitive, but most of the time it was expressed in this aggressive don’t fuck with me kind of energy, which I liked because I’m an eight.

So I was like, okay. But that’s how I learned, that’s where I [00:33:20] learned a lot of those behaviors. My mom. My dad passed away 10 years ago, or 11 years ago. My mom is still alive, but I don’t have a relationship with her today. She’s a five on the Enneagram, which happens to be one of my favorites actually.

They’re the quiet specialist, but also like their gift is that they’re emotionally non-attached and their kryptonite is also that they’re emotionally non-attached. So I’ve had a very emotionally abandoning and neglectful mom my whole life. My whole life. And especially because my energy is so intense when a five is around that intensity, they actually withdraw even more.

And so it created that dynamic. So her heart’s beautiful. I understand it’s not personal, even though it felt and feels personal. I understand her for who she is, and I recognize without some work, she’s not going to be able to participate with me, but I love the things about the five that she brought to the table.

She was always curious. She always was a reader. She was always somebody that, like my love of reading and research, definitely came from her in those modeling. But yeah, I can see where and how it’s really dysfunctional. And why her and my dad actually worked because he was so intense, she could just withdraw and it worked and she didn’t challenge him and he liked that he could call the shots.Yeah. And all the things, 

Nicole: Yeah. Energy dynamics are very interesting to me and it helped me. The reason I asked was it helped me when I learned what my parents were. Their profiles and types like learning my mom was a projector. I was like, oh my God, that makes so much sense. And then my dad, that he was a five two, not a 5/1, but a five two.

Why he withdrew so much as a two line to close off and be like, nobody, look at me. I want to do my own thing and be left alone. And then the five, how he and I had this pretty tumultuous relationship throughout my whole life. He passed away two years ago. And how we projected on each other. And through that back and forth.

And, but ultimately I think what’s interesting is, I noticed the fives, have difficult lives a lot of times, particularly the five in the front. There’s a lot of lessons to be learned. Because we are here for the other, we are here for other people to see what they need to see off of us.

That’s not always comfortable for us.But when we can be there and hold that projection for them, then we can hold the key to great transformation for them. So I always think it’s interesting when people like you and people like me are drawn to this work, where we don’t necessarily even know how, or that we will help people that are just, we’re on this path of fortifying ourselves with.

That we ultimately can’t help but share and we have to and we don’t know why. We don’t even know how we will necessarily help. In the beginning, we’re just like, I know that I have to be in front of people and show them this, and then 

Tracy: With great reward comes great responsibility and a great risk too.

Nicole: It absolutely does. And particularly with the five, not everybody is going to like what they see. When they get the, when they get the reflection. They’re not always going to be happy with what we have to show them, but it’s for us to hold. So I love this. I love this conversation.

I love what you bring and how you bring it. This was such a small taste of what Tracy offers and what the Enneagram can offer, and I wanted to show you just how these, you don’t have to be married to a system or program, allow them all to just open up and activate the different parts of you, what speaks to you.

If one is more than the other, go with that and trust that you’re being led someplace. But there are so many tools out there that hold the power for you to understand yourself and trust yourself on such a deep level. And that is the key to becoming unshakable and to ultimately, if you’re looking to achieve, if you’re looking to grow, if you’re looking to expand.You have to trust yourself. 

Tracy: It won’t come before you do have a leadership role in your family out in the world. You have to be able to lead yourself effectively first. And I use all the tools. I use the Enneagram, I use astrology, I use human design to reinforce that intuition and that knowing because I’ve been doing this as long as I have now, like when I talked to you about human design, I was like, oh, check check. That makes all total sense. And it’s like even more reinforcement that even when it doesn’t feel good. That 5/1 of us, that doesn’t always feel good. It really doesn’t. 

It sucks sometimes, but I also know the reward of that and even though I will take the hard parts that come with this really beautiful responsibility as a five, one Enneagram eight, like eights also are very 5/1 energy as well. So it’s like a double whammy in a good way, but also in, in the hard way as well. But I’m here for it. And it’s funny that you said that about like that five, knowing that I’m here to be in front of somebody and to I’m here for people as a nine year old. I, like I said, at four I remember the first time I bypassed my intuition and self abandoned at nine years old, I saw and heard and felt very clearly this is all going to matter for something. You just hang on, keep your chin up and hang on, because this is all going to matter for something. I don’t know what, but it will. And here we are, 40 years later, it’s beautiful. I had the exact same feeling as a child. I was like, this is serving me somehow. I just don’t know. 

Nicole: Me too. That is what kept me going. That is what kept me through every hard time. It was just like, I know this serves some purpose that I can’t see at this moment. 

Tracy: Yeah. 

Nicole: So thank you for sharing that, that hit me hard. You said it. I got a little choked up there. 

Tracy: It’s a crazy story I shared.  Before I was nine and it was on a Sunday morning after, the weekends were really rough in my household because the drinking escalated and the fighting.  And so Sundays were my quiet time. I’d get out on my bike and, it was a rainy morning, but I felt called to get on my bike and I just went to different churches, any denomination. And I walked into one church and I was like a drowned rat, nine years old. And I walked in and my big green eyes are looking up at this person.

I’m like, I don’t know why I’m here. But I know that I was called to be here because I was seeking. What is happening in my house and why is this happening? And it was in that moment that it was like, this is all going to matter for something. Just trust and lean in. And so like that. I was like, okay, here I am. I’m going to just honor this intuition, there was. There was the hanging on, but sometimes I hung on with a bottle of whiskey and sometimes I hung on through dysfunctional codependent relationships. But I still hung on. And here we are. It all mattered for something.

Nicole: As we do, and you’re able to help people going through those struggles now because of them. Thank you so much. Can you tell everybody where they can? because they’re going to want to stay in touch with you. They’re going to want to get more from you. Can you tell us where they can do that? 

Tracy: If you have any interest in the Enneagram at all I have a really great podcast Lead with the Enneagram. There’s over 300 episodes you can binge yourself away. And it, some of it’s very type specific, some of it’s all areas of life. Like I say, I take a holistic approach because we are holistic beings. If you’re on Instagram, Tracy_O’Malley is the best place for that. And if you want to get typed properly, you have two options. You can do my assessment, which has over 95% accuracy. I’ve tested it thousands of times. It is true. And then you get your own customized blueprint, which is like your soul blueprint basically, and the user manual and your framework, like all the wings and the things we talked about today, plus more in your own customized blueprint. I have a human design, like my blueprint printed out human design.

I have my Enneagram one printed out. It’s like a reference tool, right? Like it, like you said, Nicole, it’s not like this is who I am. A label, it’s like, how do I use this framework for me? But if you want the actual guide to show you how to use the handbook, you can spend 90 minutes with me. It’s 10 years of therapy wrapped up into one very high accelerating your transformation.

Like it’s one thing to read the manual, but it’s another thing to have the person who wrote the manual explain it in your life, in your terms in your case, whatever that looks like. Business, professional, personal. So 90 minutes with me seriously will blow your freaking mind. If that’s what you’re feeling called to do, I’ll straight shoot you with so much love, and we’ll go from there.

Nicole: I cannot recommend it enough. Get in this woman’s orbit. You will not be. Sorry. Tracy, thank you for being here. I am so grateful to know you and to have you here, and to have you in my life. So thank you for that. And thank you, listener who made it all the way to the end of this conversation with us. We appreciate you. Please let us know if you loved this episode. Tag Tracy and myself on Instagram and share a little something about the episode and the stories we would love to hear from you.

And guys, remember, you are on the journey of becoming unshakable, and we are here to support you. I will see you in the next episode.