Nicole Laino
Hello, and welcome to the limitless entrepreneur podcast. I am your host, Nicole Laino. And I am here today with a very special guest Miss Robin Graham. Robin is a personal brand strategist. And she really helps business owners, entrepreneurs develop their brand clarity. And Robin, I’m so excited to have you on the show, tell the listeners a little bit about yourself. Tell them a little bit about your story.

Robyn Graham
I will So my story is very atypical. I think. I wanted this high power career and like you I worked in corporate for many years, I went to college, I attained a doctor and pharmacy degree. And so I was in the medical profession for many years and loved it. It wasn’t that I disliked what I did. But my husband had an opportunity to move to his corporate offices. So we moved from St. Louis to the Philadelphia area, and my company did not have work for me here. So I started consulting freelancing, and I was doing medical writing. And I am just creative by nature. And so as I was working, and the regulatory demands became so much more prevalent, I was like, this is just not fulfilling anymore. I was so tired of submitting something and having lawyers take everything out that wasn’t just you know, straight from a package insert. So anyway, long story. short, fast forward. We had our daughters, we had two boys and our daughter, and I was freelancing. And I was having to travel, my husband was having to travel, no family locally. So it was really getting kind of crazy. The boys started playing travel sports, and the lady that was helping me with my daughter, when I worked became very ill. And we didn’t have another option for her at that time. So my options or my choices were to find someone else, or scale back and do something different. And my husband and I looked at each other. And we said, we’re two ships passing in the night, our oldest was starting to show pretty significant signs of anxiety. And we’re like, this is not worth it. It just was not worth the quality of life anymore. And so my husband said, You love photography, I see you light up when you do it, do something with it. I thought, Oh my God, he’s crazy, like the mind, right? And I thought everybody’s gonna think I’m nuts. And they did, because I was leaving, you know, something that I worked really hard to attain and achieve, and then left it for what everyone thought was just a hobby. But what I did was I turned my passion into a business. And very quickly, my very first paying client was actually a personal branding photography client. Well, 10 years ago, that wasn’t a thing. We didn’t have Instagram, you know, nobody was building an online presence like we are today. So I didn’t know what to call that. And long story short, I took every job that came my way so that I could make my photography business successful, because there was no way I was going to fail at this. And then I realized maybe five years in that, okay, now Instagram is a big platform, this really is a thing. And then I started really focusing on that branding component of my photography business, doing hit professional headshots. And as I did, I realized that people had no idea how to create a personal brand, they didn’t know where to begin. And I was guilty of this from the very beginning of my business. And so I, I really started researching it, and I took courses became a certified brand strategist. And from there, I was able to help my clients. And so it became more of an entire package for building a personal brand than just taking photos, giving them to them, and then not having any idea how to use them for the power that they actually have for SEO and, you know, to tell their story and to really connect and build an emotional connection with their audiences. So that transformed into what I do today. I’m still doing some of the photography, but now I’m coaching as well and really building that solid foundation for brands and business success.

Nicole Laino
I love so much about this. And there’s there’s a lot to unpack there. Like I love that and you are also the host of the second phase podcast. Yes. Which I love that I love the I love the the message behind it. I love the inspiration behind it that that you know, the first phase doesn’t have to be the phase that you carry through till the day you die. Because you committed to it when you were 22 years old, or whenever you decided to major in something in school, and then like that, then just the road is paved. And you just keep continuing down it like that takes some courage. And sometimes it takes a life event like what you had to wake you up to the fact that there are other options out there for you. And I’m curious how you feel based on that like you, you you made that pivot. Could you imagine going back to the work that you were doing before? For now,

Robyn Graham
know, there are times that I miss the clinical aspect. You know, my husband has the same degree. So he works in a pharmaceutical company. And, you know, I listened to him and I see everything he’s doing. And sometimes I get this little I don’t know, twinge, I guess you know, where I think, oh, maybe I do miss it a little bit. But at the end of the day, I could not go back and work nine to five or work for someone else, or have those deadlines where I was having to, you know, submit something by midnight, and it’s 1150. And I’m still writing and I don’t miss that at all. I love having the freedom of being an entrepreneur. What I will say, though, is that being an entrepreneur is actually I think, harder than working in corporate in a lot of ways, because you have so many more responsibilities. And yes, you have freedom, and you can set your own schedule, but you’re on 24/7 Yeah, you don’t just do a job, turn things in hand things over, you know, get a review from your boss and a pat on the back, you are doing every single thing. And you have to do so much of that push and drive and coordinating everything from your mindset to to the tactical components of your business. So do I miss it? Maybe a little bit, but I am so happy in what I do that I would never go back.

Nicole Laino
Yeah, and you know, and it’s, it’s great that you brought that up because entrepreneurs, I absolutely think that entrepreneurship is harder than when I worked at corporate because I was given what I needed to do. And whether I liked it or not, the choice wasn’t there. So some days, I was really excited about what I was working on. And some days I was like, I want to kill myself, I hate this. But I the freedom that I have now to be as creative as I want and to explore who I am and what I stand for. And for my job to be becoming the best version of myself, that I possibly can be that the more me I am, the more money I make. That is priceless to me.

Robyn Graham
Oh, it’s such a blessing. It’s such I mean, just it gives me chills to think about it the way you just said it. Because to be able to be yourself and make money for that. There’s nothing better.

Nicole Laino
Yep. And that kind of brings us into branding. This is what I want to like. And because you and I were talking before the show, and we were talking a little bit about about your niche, and really creating community within your, within your brand and with the people who follow you and who are participating in your brand. And I want to start talking about this a little bit because I and I’m going to kick it over to you to just sort of get your take on the niching down. I think people get stuck. I know people get stuck here. I don’t think it I know people get stuck here. We feel like we can’t pinpoint the person that we want to talk to we’re afraid of boxing ourselves into tightly. They’re afraid to really, and I think I think a lot of it comes from a fear of connection as well that we are afraid to be too vulnerable out there. So and so there’s so much to there’s so much to talk about around this, I’d love to know, where do you come from in this as far as being a brand strategist? And helping people when someone comes to you? And they’re like, What do I do? I’m starting my brand. What do I do? Where do you start them and how does niche play into it?

Robyn Graham
The very first thing I like to do is take a look at values, visions and passions. Because until you have and think of it as a Venn diagram. So at some point, those three things are going to overlap. And that’s where you’re going to find the most positive energy, you’re going to feel the most fulfilled, and you’re going to feel the most confident around whatever it is you’re doing. So I like to start there. And I work with a lot of multi passionate people. And I myself am multi passionate, so I totally get how hard it is to reel things in. So what I like to do is describe it as an hourglass. So if you if you think of an hourglass, you have all this space up top, so all these ideas, all these passions, all these things you want to do that your dream of doing that you think you can do. They’re all up at the top. But what happens is if you’re trying to communicate all of those things to everyone, you’re reaching no one because everybody’s like, Well wait, what does she actually do? And so if you can narrow that down to the point where those three things, your values, your vision, and your passions overlap, that think of the center of the hourglass so you’re narrowing that down so that you can get your focus you can find your clarity, you can really discover what it is you’re meant to be doing. What is your calling and who are you meant to serve? And then you can fine tune that so that you can connect with the people that you’re meant to be working with those people that are just out If they’re waiting for you to show up and solve their problem, because they haven’t connected with the other people that are in your space, because they just personality wise, don’t connect. And then after you do that, and you start building that foundation, then you can broaden that back up. Because people will understand that this is who you are, this is what you do, you can add those other things back into your business, you don’t have to keep them out of your business forever. But you create a strategy around what connects them, what is that 11235, whatever, the thing that actually overlaps, that connects all those things together. So like, we can use myself as an example. So I was a branding photographer, now I’m a personal branding, mentor, coach, whatever you want to call it. So I’m still in that same realm, I’m still doing something that people can make a connection with it. Sometimes those connections aren’t quite as great or dramatic, or, you know, as identifiable. But there’s always an underlying connection that branches, you know, if you think of a tree and the branches, your brand is kind of that your personal brand is kind of that trunk. And then all those branches are those other things like the people that you’re connecting with your ideal audience, it’s those items within your business that you do to serve your population. So ultimately, all those things merge to the point where the trunk is there. And that’s where your expertise is, which comes from your values, visions and passions. Does that make sense?

Nicole Laino
It makes complete sense. And I have a similar process that I walk people through, we call it something different, but But identifying that zone of genius that that is yours. And letting that be the core, that trunk that you talk about of the tree, letting that be the core of what you do. And I always say that, like, when I talk about what I do, I say I help people find their zone of genius, and I help them have the courage to stay there. Because I think it’s the tough one of the toughest things to do. Because we want to be all things to all people. And, and resisting that can be difficult in the beginning. Because I think we see it as like when we get to finite on something, that means that we’re limiting the amount of possibilities that we have out there. And that’s not really how it works.

Robyn Graham
Not at all. And I think that we have so many distractions, and we see other people doing so many things and saying that they did X to achieve y. And we get sucked into that. And we think that, oh gosh, well they’re doing that maybe. And I could do that. So maybe I need to add that on to my list of things that I could do for people, well, I could make money doing that. So I’m going to add that on as a service er. And you can’t do that. Because the more distracted you get, the more confused you are. And if you are confused, and don’t have clarity, you’re not going to be confident. And if you’re not confident in yourself, your audience isn’t going to be confident in you. And what happens if they’re not confident in you, you can’t borrow, you can’t build trust. And if you can’t build trust, no one’s gonna buy from you. Because what what everybody says, you know, trust determines buying practices. And it’s true, if you’re not able to clearly communicate what you do, and how you help people, they’re not going to understand it. So they’re not going to be confident or trust you. And that

Nicole Laino
that really, I love that you throw confident in there. Because I think having a powerful brand is a reflection of the power that you have inside of you that you are claiming and owning as your own. And so you have I want you to kind of run through because you have the five C’s that you walk people through. And I think that will help give people kind of a framework to sort of and then we can branch off talking about different aspects of it. But can you run through those five C’s? Because I think that’d be really valuable to the people that are listening?

Robyn Graham
Sure, absolutely. So the five C’s are clarity, cohesive, consistent, content, and community. And if you think about it, your clarity is where you’re going to find that confidence, then. And through that clarity and confidence, you’re going to be able to build meaningful connections that ultimately build relationships. That’s how you build a warmer audience is through that foundation of clarity from there you want to be cohesive. So as a personal brand you have you have your personal brand, which is what other people think feel and say about you. Your Branding is how you communicate that and then your which your branding then leads into your marketing and that the power of community and connection. Then you have your brand identity, which includes your brand assets. Those brand assets are your logo, your typography, your color palette, and you want to make sure that from a cohesive perspective, that those things are being used across all of your platforms to help you become more recognizable, more memorable because when you do that you also become shareable. Be cuz you’re you’re building relationships as you do that. And then from being cohesive, that’s going to incorporate your content, you want your messaging to be cohesive, as well. But primarily think about the visual aspects of your business. So from your website to your social media platforms, and then you want to be consistent. And this is definitely about messaging, you want your messaging on your website, to your social media platforms to always be consistent. If you’re a podcast guests, you want your message to be consistent with what you have on your website, what you’re posting in your social media feeds what you’re posting on your Facebook group, because that consistency is how people are going to realize exactly what you stand for exactly how you can help them. As they start to realize that and you are consistent. Again, you’re going to build that confidence and trust. And then we have content and your content has to be content that connects it’s got to be so valuable or entertaining, educational, inspiring, so that it truly connects with your ideal audience. Again, the content has to be consistent. So we go back into those other see words, but the content has to connect, because that’s going to help build that confidence through your audience. And then you have community and when I talk about community, I often say You know, you start if you’re especially if you’re starting out with your business, start small, like you have a community around you already your family, your friends, start telling them about your business, get their feedback about what you’re doing. And as as that you tap into that community, then they’re going to start sharing you, and then that’s going to continue to grow. So don’t ever discount like that community that you have already in your back pocket. But then start building that community on all of your platforms, you know, use SEO to drive traffic to your website. So more people can join your community to get to know you, you’ve got your feet, if you have a Facebook group, you know, grow your community there and then grow your communities on your social media feeds, or platforms. But that community then gives you opportunity for collaboration. So just like we’re doing, Nicole, we’re collaborating in a podcast interview, and we’re sharing each other. And as we collaborate with each other, and we share each other our audiences grow. And so that is collaborations give us more opportunity to increase our referral base. And then also, because you’re an expert, and you are sharing me with your audience, I’ll have you on my show, hopefully soon, and then I’ll share you with my audience. So then they’ll see you as an expert as well. And they’ll know they can trust you because I’ve trusted you to bring them, you know, to share you with them. So those collaborations become very powerful in terms of and you know, I should say the other thing about collaborations too, and I think this is something that every single online entrepreneur is guilty of is comparison. And the more you collaborate, the less you let comparison interfere with your mindset, as well as how much success you’re able able to achieve. Because if you’re just comparing yourself and trying to copy someone else, you’re not authentic, and you’re not going to connect with your ideal audience.

Nicole Laino
Yeah, and you I couldn’t agree more and collaboration. That is something that I think in the beginning, sometimes if you’re not a, a regular currently, you’re not like a born collaborator, maybe if you’re introverted, and you don’t necessarily go out to the world for a lot of stuff, it can be an unnatural thing for you to do or tougher for you to do, or kind of the last thing on your list. Nothing will grow you as an entrepreneur faster than collaborating with other people. And it’s been, it’s so rewarding. Like you said, if you have issues with comparison, it will wipe that out. First of all, because you’re going to find people who are on the same journey as you the people who support you. And you realize that not everybody’s out to get you that not everybody knows so much more than you that you have a place that you belong, and that people support you. And that I think is a really an I can’t have an episode where I don’t talk about mindset. Because it’s so when you’re an entrepreneur, you are the operating system. And this is going to it’s all about your ability to function, like in growth mode and not in saving maintenance mode, and you know, staying safe but, but this, the mindset of feeling unsupported in your life and your marriage and your family and your business by the universe will keep you from taking risks will keep you from doing things that help you grow. So reaching out to other people and realizing that people are here to support you and that there’s support all around you. That is an infectious thing that it does to your energy and to the way that you show up in the world. Like when you show up like feeling like people have my back. That’s that’s a priceless feeling. And so I love that you brought that up that, you know, the collaboration is such a huge part of community there’s we think about following we think about like building an audience, but build your allies

Robyn Graham
100%, because if nobody’s sharing you, then you’re only going to reach the people that you have in your network. And it’s going to be really hard to grow that organically, you’re going to have to work tirelessly. So the more you expand and share yourself with others, and welcome them into your life and your community and collaborate with them, the more you’re going to be able to expand all those opportunities. And I am an introvert. So this is something that it was hard for me at first, because it’s like, oh, well, if they were in the same space, we surely couldn’t collaborate together, because then she might take my clients, that mindset is so prohibitive, like literally, it will do nothing but puts you into that spiral of fear and procrastination. Because once you get into that mindset of comparison, that oh, they could take my clients or whatever the case may be, you’re not going to grow, you’re going to stay stagnant because you’re stuck in procrastination. And I don’t know, we could talk for hours about that, I’m sure. But it’s, I’m so glad you said everything you said. Because that mindset component is so so powerful.

Nicole Laino
It really is. And so I’m glad that we that we brought that up, and that that you know the person that’s at home listening right now, I hope you take that to heart, and you really look at like, am I collaborating? Excuse me? Have a little frog in my throat there? Are Am I collaborating? Am I reaching out? Am I Am I expanding? in all ways? Am I expanding to my audience? Am I expanding to my ally network? am I building an ally network, for myself and for my business. And then the other thing that I kind of wanted to touch on because I want to go back to clarity, because I think this is where I know, this is where so many people are. This is where they’re trying to hit the gas harder on the sales side of things. And we were talking about this before the show started, that they come into a program and they sign up with you for as a branding coach. And they’re like, Okay, how do I build my product and sell it? And they’re like, come on, I gotta I gotta take these things off the off the list, edit, create the program, launch it, deliver it, do it again, money, money, money, money, money, when can I get the money? And the answer is, slow down system. Take a step back, who are you serving? What is your message? How do you connect with people? Where are you finding these people? How, like, what is the relationship that you have with them? And so what is your experience with working with people and branding, on that piece on the clarity piece, like you listed at first is that the cornerstone in your mind

Robyn Graham
100% 100% If you aren’t clear on what you can do, how you can do it, and why your why why you want to do it. And why you feel like you’re this is your calling, this is what you’re meant to do. If you aren’t aligned with those things, you aren’t going to number one, be able to identify who you want to serve, or who you can serve best, and you’re not gonna be able to reach them. So you, you’re not gonna be able to create clear content, you’re not going to be able to have messaging that really resonates. And what I see happen is people and unfortunately, like, I wish people would come to me from the from the point they have an idea. And we could just build this straight through with so much ease and save so much money and save so much time. But the reality is I usually get people who have been doing all these things, and they’re just not going anywhere, which is fine. I’m happy to rescue people as well. But what I see time and time again, is somebody has said to them, Oh, I did Facebook ads, and they worked great. I made money. Okay, so then these people invest in Facebook ads, and they get nowhere, they get nothing. But they have

Nicole Laino
no message, no message, and they don’t have a warm audience.

Robyn Graham
And they don’t have a warm audience. So you need that clarity so that you can create a clear message to be able to build relationships, because without that connection, nobody’s going to buy from you. And so yeah, so this is what I see all of the time. And you have to start with the foundation and that foundation starts with clarity.

Nicole Laino
Yeah, it’s not the tactics because the tactics all work. I say that all the time. I’m like, the strategies. This is why like, I love a good testimonial. You know, I love seeing somebody talk about like, you know, I made $100,000 In two weeks with this person’s method and, and sure, I’m not saying they’re lying, but they’re telling the truth. One you don’t know where that person started to that tactic. I’m never saying that any of them don’t work, they all work. The problem is are you in a position to use? Are you able to drive that car yet? Yeah. And is it the right car for you and your audience?

Robyn Graham
Right and if you’re not Michelle Mazar who is she’s just a lovely woman. She’s She wrote the book. Three word rebel, I think is the name of her book. But she has a podcast as well, rebel uprising, but she calls it bro marketing. And it’s, it’s literally a saying, bro marketing, I made $600,000 In a week, you know, the, okay, maybe you did. But that’s not going to make me want to buy from you. I want to know where you started and how long it took you to get there and what you had to do to get there. And that’s what people don’t realize they’re not asking those questions. They’re just making an assumption that, oh, that person made that. So I’m going to follow them, I’m going to hire them. And I’m going to be able to do exactly what they did. And it doesn’t work. Because if you haven’t been able to clearly identify all those things about your personal brand and who your ideal audience is. And when I say ideal audience, I’m not narrowing that down to like one specific person. But those other people, those other people that are going to perceive you and understand what you do and who you’re meant to serve. And you you have, you just have to have that. Because if you don’t build the foundation, you’re going to get to the middle middle of the road in your business. And all you’re going to be doing is backstepping, because you did everything out of order. And, you know, I’m not saying your strategy has to be ABC, but your strategy has to start with a solid base, you know, it’s just like, I use the example a lot of a potter, you a potter doesn’t take a piece of clay and say, Okay, now you’re a pot. No, the potter has to mold the clay, spin the clay, then they have to bake it, they have to glaze it, they have to, you know, do all of these steps and processes before it’s a beautiful vase. And the same thing holds true with people and personal brands, you have to build the foundation first, or your vase is going to be wonky, it’s not going to hold water or it’s going to be sideways and the flowers are going to tip over you know you you have to be strategic and have that foundation first. For sure.

Nicole Laino
Or you’re going to what you’re going to do is in the in the interest of trying to move faster to sell faster to it’s going to cost you money. Because you’re wasting money, you’re investing in things that you’re not ready to invest in like Facebook ads, which are a very expensive lesson in messaging and poor messaging and niching and targeting. And and you’re going to waste time, it’s going to take you longer, you’re going to get very frustrated with yourself, it’s going to destroy your confidence, because you go to write content. And because you don’t know who you’re talking to, and you don’t know what your message is, and you don’t know what you want to share. And you don’t have a real clear idea of who you are as a brand. And what you offer. You will spin your wheels. And you will feel like this is impossible for you. And it’s not going

Robyn Graham
well. Yeah, right. Overwhelmed burnout stress, though. I mean, those are very real phenomenon that happened to people. And it’s because they haven’t laid the foundation. First, there’s an idol. I believe that every single person out there that has a calling on their heart and has goals that they want to achieve and become an entrepreneur can reach success. I really do believe it. But I think so many people get hung up on what other people are doing or thinking that they have to get to a point. You know, whatever, whatever, you know, faster. And it just you have to be patient and you have to build the foundation first. I can’t say that enough. And I know I’ve probably said it 10 times today. But you really do have to do that. Because if you jump straight into sales, but you don’t have a sales process, it’s gonna fall flat. I mean, what what does your sales process look like? Well, if it just means getting on a discovery call, but you don’t have anything automated. You don’t have, you know, a plan of action or a call to action. What’s it going to do for you?

Nicole Laino
Yeah, you need to you need to you have to wrap your arms around the whole thing and that takes you don’t want to plan forever, but you have to take the time to actually do it. You have to take the time to go through the exercises and and do the soul searching and I’m curious, have you found that people have resistance to or what do you feel like people have the most resistance to or have difficulty honing in on the brand clarity piece?

Robyn Graham
I would say it’s it’s really just rushing through. It’s not wanting to take the time to build the relationships They people make an assumption that there are people are going to find them no matter what. And that’s not true, you have to put out effort and you have to, you have to create and build your personal brand first, because they’re not going to just happen upon you, you have to do the legwork, you have to build that foundation, incorporate SEO, incorporate content, have effective calls to action, there’s all those steps that you have to take, you have to make decisions on what platform you want to be on. Like maybe Instagram isn’t where your people are, maybe LinkedIn is where your people are, but you have to make those decisions based on who your people actually are. So it’s really fine tuning the, the ins and outs of your personal brand. First, who you are, and then creating that perception that people can trust you that you are an expert, that you are the go to for them, and then defining who them is so that you’re talking specifically to them.

Nicole Laino
Right, it’s so like what I’m hearing, you know, we talked about in the beginning we were talking about it’s you know, we dig into our value your values, vision and passion. And that can sometimes be difficult to, for people to say like to own it and be like, This is what I’m meant to share. This is, you know, it takes courage to stay there. And then then, but once you understand what that is, it becomes a whole lot clearer. Who can use that? Who can I help? Like, if I were to Who do you help, what is your niche that you that you kind of focus on to just give everybody an example of of how that works.

Robyn Graham
So my person, I’ve actually named her because I’m when I’m creating content, I can actually say, Okay, this is what Jules is going through today. This is where she is on her journey. And that may sound silly, but it helps me be more clear with my content. And so she’s a woman who was in corporate, and she was thriving in corporate, but she lost her job. And now she wants to start something using her skills. But she doesn’t really know exactly where she wants to do that she doesn’t want to do the same thing she’s been doing. She wants to try something new. She knows what her skills are. She knows what she likes, but she hasn’t really found her passion yet, because she’s been stifled because she’s been in the corporate environment. And she’s like you said earlier, you know, she’s being told basically what to do, and what goals she has to meet, not her own. So working through. So I hope you know her work through that. And then she hasn’t been in the online world. She doesn’t know social media platforms. She doesn’t know what SEO is, she doesn’t know how to create a sales process. As an entrepreneur, she might have been doing this. But she’s been trained to do this from a corporate perspective, for a product that was she was representing she hasn’t had to do that for herself and actually sell herself as a service. So building that foundation for her is what I love to do the most like helping her fine tune that definition of what it is she’s going to be doing through really identifying and it’s hard work, you know, to identify all those things and make that make sure that they align. But that’s what I that’s who my audience is. That’s who I like to help is that woman who is coming from a place where there was a lot of security. And now there’s a lot of unknowns and helping her just create what it is she’s got weighing on her heart to create.

Nicole Laino
So thank you for sharing that. So like I just for, I want to use this as an example. So now guys, you’re listening to this, you just you just heard Robin share who her person is. Now her podcast is called the second phase podcast. So does that fit the former corporate woman who’s kind of looking for her next thing? Yes. We’re we’ve been talking about brand clarity and what she focuses on so her content can fit into these five sees that she’s sharing with you, and put that out in the world. So when that woman reads Robbins stuff, or listens to her podcast, she’s like, this was made for me. This speaks to me, she knows me. She knows my problems as well or better than I do. And she’s found her way out. Maybe she’s the one to help me. I just wanted to use like a real life example to just kind of lay it out there that this is this is how you do it. This is why the clarity is so important. And that level of detail you have on your on your person is so helpful.

Robyn Graham
Yeah. Yeah, it makes it makes a world of difference. And, you know, I’ve done exercises with my clients where I actually will have them draw a picture of who their ideal client is. Because if you think about it, when you visualize things you You get more clarity on them. We use all our senses. And I think I think your personal brand is something that it does incorporate all your senses. I mean, maybe not smell. But the funny thing is like, in this was kind of a silly example, but I have a makeup artist that I use for my headshot sessions and branding sessions. And I have a perfume that I wear all the time. And she’s like, I always know where you know where you are, where you’ve been, because I can and it’s not like an overbearing, she’s like, that’s your scent. And so something as simple as that, you know, is like does does your ideal audience, person? Does your person wear a ton of makeup? Does your person wear high heels? Does your person wear a suit every day? Does your person you know, only use designer handbags? Like who is your person? What does she like? How do you connect with her? And if you’re on a call with like, you have to visualize if you’re on a call with her, and she is nothing like you, then are you going to be able to connect with her? Are you going to understand each other? Are you going to trust each other because that trust and confidence goes both ways. It’s not just a one way street.

Nicole Laino
For sure. And when you talk about the picture, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard Russell Brunson talk about when he niched down, that at the beginning, he he was getting all these clients and that he didn’t really want to work with. And he realized that he needed to rethink his his niche, his his, his avatar, and he wanted a man and a woman. And he, she’s like, I went online. And I just pulled two pictures down off the internet, where I was like, That’s my girl. That’s my and Julie is his is the name of his girl. And I forget what the name of his guy is. But he talked about how like he put them up on his wall. And I was like, I looked at him every day. And I built like a whole world around these people. And it was the first time I heard the visual element of it, because I had done all of the, the psychographic stuff around it. And I was an actor. So I always think about like building characters, right and filling them out with stuff that’s real. And like I always asked, like, what do they believe? What do I need them to believe like the they get into the the actory stuff. But that that is so important, because then they become a living, breathing person to you.

Robyn Graham
Yeah. And if you think about it, you have had interactions with people over the course of time, whether you’re just starting out your business, or you have a business and you’ve actually had clients, but you’re not growing at the rate you want to grow. And so you need someone to come in and help you and kind of save you from that stress, overwhelm, and burnout, no matter what you’ve worked with people throughout the course of time, that can represent your ideal client. So think back as to who you really connected with, and how you who you best served, you know, who was that person that you really resonated with, they resonated with you and you were able to solve their problems with ease, you know, it wasn’t stressful and awful experience, you weren’t frustrated, they weren’t frustrated. Because if you are working with and this is where Russell Brunson was coming from you, if you’re attracting the wrong people, you’re going to be frustrated. And then you’re going to feel like, well, this isn’t worth it, all I’m doing is attracting the wrong people. And you’re gonna step into that place of procrastination again, and you if you’re not present, then you’re not visible, and you’re not going to be able to be found and seen or build the relationships you need to build. Exactly. And it’s taking radical responsibility. If the wrong people are coming into your world, it’s not their fault. You’re fishing with the wrong bait.

Nicole Laino
If you catch and see Robins, maybe you’re in the wrong spot, and you need to go to where the bass are biting, like that’s, and but but asking, taking responsibility for that I don’t sit there and go like, you know, the ocean is just not it’s cruel today and sending me all the wrong stuff. God, you know, if you wouldn’t do that, if you were you’d be like, Oh, I guess we’re in the wrong spot, I guess. You know, maybe we I don’t know, maybe we switch up the bait next time. We don’t take it personally, we take it personally when the wrong people come in, why can’t I find the right people?

Robyn Graham
And it’s the same thing. You know, we talked briefly about your sales process. If you don’t have a good sales process, then you because the whole thing about a discovery call right is to see if you’re a good fit. So if you don’t have a process in place for identifying who your ideal client is, and then having a way to communicate with them, so that you can really decipher, are we a good fit?

Nicole Laino
Well, if you don’t know who they are, then you don’t know.

Robyn Graham
Right? Yeah, who cares if they’re willing to pay you $5,000 If they’re not a good fit, nothing is worth $5,000 If you’re miserable, and they aren’t doing the work you want them to do or need them to do because if they can’t achieve success, then you’re not achieving success.

Nicole Laino
For sure, absolutely. Well, this this conversation I think has has been incredibly valuable. I loved having it. I loved it, I loved everything that we got into. And I hope that everybody listening took notes and really takes to heart, the clarity piece of building your brand. Because it really is everything, everything in front will get so much easier. When you gotta build the engine of the car, before you start putting on, you know, the rims, and all of the fancy little adornments that you want the leather seats and stuff. That’s all extra. But But thank you so much for being here for sharing your story for sharing so much wisdom with everyone. Thank you so much and tell everybody where can they stay in touch with you? How can they learn more about you and stay in touch with you. So the best place

Robyn Graham
to find anything about me is my resource page on my website. And it’s though Robin graham.com. I’m Robin with a why but it’s though Robin graham.com forward slash resources. You can find free downloads there, you can find the podcast link there you can find the Facebook group there, the female entrepreneur insider, so everything is really simple at that one place. And I’m though Robin Graham everywhere, so I’m really easy to find.

Nicole Laino
Awesome well, and we will then even though you made it super easy, we’ll make sure that we make it even easier. And we will link all of that up in the show notes. So it’s super easy for you with just a click away. You can keep in touch, follow Robin, get those free resources that she has on her website. Stay in touch with her because she shares so much value on all of her platforms. And her email list is her her email newsletter is wonderful. You will want to be on that. Thank you, Robin for being here. And thank you, listener for making it all the way to the end of this interview to the end of this episode. I appreciate you. We appreciate you hanging with us till the end. I’m going to say what I say at the end of every episode, you are only limited by the limitations that you accept. And when you stop accepting those limitations. You become limitless. Have a wonderful rest of your day. We will see you on the next one.